Thoughts, Feedback and Suggestions for B 1.07

[atommmorph]

Hey everyone,

First off I have to start with the fact that this latest release feels amazing. I've been playing CS since it's inception, and was around when the initial CSP beta was released. To see what the game looks, feels and plays like now compared to that initial release...I am astonished. IMO, with the following tweaks that I will list and explain as much as I can, I feel as though the game will be nearly ready for competitive play.

1 - Grenades
- First off, the grenade models are a little too large in my opinion. Slightly larger than 1.6 and significantly larger than CS:S. I feel that if you reduce the size to be smaller than 1.6 and almost match CS:S, the grenades will feel a lot better when switching to them as well as throwing.

- Secondly, when switching and throwing any of the grenades the animation from pulling to release feels way too lagged. I think one of the positive aspects about CS:S is that when you switch to a grenade and throw it, it releases nearly instantly which makes the gameplay aspect a hell of a lot smoother.
- If you were to reduce the size of the grenades and improve upon the release / animations of the grenades, I think overall that would help improve the game on it's own. Those tweaks coupled with the throwing / angling abilities found in 1.6 would make for a nicely combined style of throwing / usage.

2 - Player Animations
- Although it has probably been stated countless times already, the model animations are in dire need of reworking. It looks as though they are running on their tippy toes with something stuck up their asses (not being rude just trying to paint a vivid picture). I think a middle ground between the CS:S animations (smoother mechanical movement) mixed with the strafing, jumping, crouching, running etc from 1.6 would make for yet another nicely combined style of gameplay.
- When you take damage, even if it is a low amount I feel as though your player reaction is too intense at times. That and it's hard to fully realize you're being hit, only in the respect that I'm used to noticing my health area flash a little more severely. The directional notifications are SPOT on which I was very pleased to see, it is just I feel like I'm getting raped when in reality I only took like 15 damage.
- In terms of hitting the other players I can definitely tell when I am hitting them, such an improvement from previous releases. One thing though is at close distances the blood gush animations aren't apparent enough, especially in darker areas of a map.

3 - Gun Recoil
- Overall the recoil of the guns feels great. Strafe shooting is incredibly accurate, and the AWP...my god the AWP feels gorgeous. One thing I did notice, however, is when standing still if you look at where the bullets are going on certain guns (ie USP, M4), the image sprite of a bullet indent actually appears to land around the lower left portion of the cross hair but when shooting someone standing still it's accurate. I think it's just an animation bug but something that people should already have noticed or will.
- AWP (Pertaining to Quick Scoping)
- Quick scoping in this release is ridiculously accurate and smooth, but in rare occurrences if you do not quick scope properly (you left click slightly late) the MOUSE1 fire aspect seems to have a slight input lag but ONLY in this occurrence.

That's all I can remember for now but I am pretty sure my above feedback encompasses some tweaks, changes etc that I'm sure the old school players as well as the current community would agree on.

Thanks for looking it over,

Nico Gamma "atommorph"

[yuri]

Nades are not larger than the 1.6 ones. Feel free to make cmp sshots.

Gooshes gets dark in dark areas - matter of engine lightening IMO.

[atommmorph]

Nades are not larger than the 1.6 ones. Feel free to make cmp sshots.

Gooshes gets dark in dark areas - matter of engine lightening IMO.

I guess larger wasn't the best word for what I meant. I'll rephrase it.

The grenades are larger than the 1.6 grenades in the respect that they are elongated moreso than 1.6. The nades in 1.6 have a "stocky" appearance while in the latest release I'd compare them to more of a "lanky" look, if you can grasp where I'm heading at. If not, then keep your opinion to yourself.

The most critical thing that in my opinion has priority over other fixes would have to be the physics behind the grenades. That seems to be the only aspect that at this moment in time, would prevent CSP from being competition ready.

[yuri]

I know what lanky means :)

If you can describe what is wrong whit nades devs would appreciate it (gravity, bouncines, etc.).

[Levidia]

Also, I would like to add that he HE grenade looks like a flash so you should fix a new model for it or something :)!

[majkool]

Maybe his point is that grenades are too long or streched comparing to these from CS 1.6 because for me it looks like.

[atommmorph]

Maybe his point is that grenades are too long or streched comparing to these from CS 1.6 because for me it looks like.

Bingo. If you look hard enough when throwing a nade, you will see what I am talking about. Basically the height of the grenade (even though when thrown it is angled) is too high. If they were made shorter, they would appear more similiar to 1.6 grenades. This would also fix the issue where some people can't tell what grenade is being thrown since the color spots on the top and bottom would be closer, thus the color being easier to pick up.

[n3krO]

Nades are not larger than the 1.6 ones. Feel free to make cmp sshots.

Gooshes gets dark in dark areas - matter of engine lightening IMO.

They are larger and lower.... i've stated this before... at less lower they are (after you throw them i mean).
You should keep cs1.6 length:height so it would feel better.. right now the leght should be shorter to match cs1.6 length:height of the grandes :S

I hope you know what i mean :o

[free]

The most critical thing that in my opinion has priority over other fixes would have to be the physics behind the grenades. That seems to be the only aspect that at this moment in time, would prevent CSP from being competition ready.
I'd like to ask about the most critical thing here. What is exactly wrong here?

[tiger]

The most critical thing that in my opinion has priority over other fixes would have to be the physics behind the grenades. That seems to be the only aspect that at this moment in time, would prevent CSP from being competition ready.

Considering about 99% of the nade tricks from 1.6 work in CSP (and most of those who don't are map related), I strongly disagree there.

[nki1]

Yes grens are fine :) However a small decrease in size shouldn't hurt. I as a 1.6 player felt they were too big. Maybe they got the same size than 1.6 grens, but they feel even bigger in csp. Maybe a decrease by 10% or so could help.

[yuri]

The length is the same as 1.6 ones - really make a comparing sshots.

The models are scaled up so you don't get those bloated 'water melons' like in 1.6.

[majkool]

That's why all think that they're bigger.

In CS 1.6 they'are more wider but in CSP they'are scaled up and look thinner.

So the problem here is the habit.
Right?

[xtobix]

My suggestions:
1. Add HDR on all CSP maps, because it looks nice and is optional anyways.
2. Remove "shadow detail" from your video-options tab, because high shadow settings look the same like low settings. Set shadow detail low by default.
3. Work on the maps. csp_aim_awp needs work. it looks really low detail. see my suggestions here: http://cspromod.com/community/threads/3435-Official-CSP_aim_awp-bug-thread . Rebalance csp_aztec. Imo you should make the following changes:
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r129/tobias_buenger_web_de/csp_aztec.jpg
+ I don't really like aztec's new visual style. imo you should replace the wooden stairs with stone-stairs, add some small plants in the corners and make the whole map look less green.. or atleast make the green look less intense and more realistic. You could also improve the look of the ground by making the stone-ways using an overlay-texture and using a mud/grass/grass texture for the rest of the ground. Maybe take CS:GO aztec's visual style for reference..

[nki1]

I love the new look of aztec. It has way more color variation and the colors are great. Only thing I would visually improve is the make the wooden doors a brighter brown and make the wooden stairs with smaller stairs, so they look more realistic. But keep the wood :)

[yuri]

...
ad shadows: I suggest you to compare Low/Med settings on guns, grenades and ragdolls.

ad maps: awp and aztec need work, the same applies on inferno and the rest of the map. It's known :)

[sIMson]

My suggestions:
1. Add HDR on all CSP maps, because it looks nice and is optional anyways.

I also wanted to suggest that: add HDR to all of the maps and make it disabled by default.

Rebalance csp_aztec. Imo you should make the following changes:
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r129/tobias_buenger_web_de/csp_aztec.jpg

This would mean removing all of the changes made by j0lt in order to make this map more balanced.


+ I don't really like aztec's new visual style. imo you should replace the wooden stairs with stone-stairs

This would make the map look like a mix of gray and green... Do you really think this should appear in a 2011 game?


Maybe take CS:GO aztec's visual style for reference..

IMHO CSPromod should have its own unique visual style instead if copying someone else's style.

[n3krO]

Considering about 99% of the nade tricks from 1.6 work in CSP (and most of those who don't are map related), I strongly disagree there.

i think grenades should lose less speed when going up ramps... i often use the ramps to throw the grenades further but in cspromod it just makes the grenade stop more near me then just throw them in the air....

[n69ky]

i think grenades should lose less speed when going up ramps... i often use the ramps to throw the grenades further but in cspromod it just makes the grenade stop more near me then just throw them in the air....

becayuse CSP is not FLAT ... even ramps in CS1.6 are a 'flat' surface, in CSP they are displacements.

[atommmorph]

What I mean pertaining to the physics of the grenades is that it feels as though they "launch" from your hand slower and more delayed than that in 1.6. In 1.6 when I throw nades, the animations etc are responsive instantly whereas in this current release it feels slightly delayed.

[n3krO]

becayuse CSP is not FLAT ... even ramps in CS1.6 are a 'flat' surface, in CSP they are displacements.

In csp_train they are displacements too? they don't look like O.o.

It really feels more like a code thing then mapping but if you say it's not code thing then i will just need to change :P

[n69ky]

All sand, gravel, grass + Aztec stonefloor are displacements.

The concrete floor in train not. That's right.

[yuri]

What I mean pertaining to the physics of the grenades is that it feels as though they "launch" from your hand slower and more delayed than that in 1.6. In 1.6 when I throw nades, the animations etc are responsive instantly whereas in this current release it feels slightly delayed.

The nades in 1.04 begin to draw themselves immediately, so they appear "in your eyes". What we discovered is cs1.6 has a 100ms delay before the nade begins to render itself, which is now in 1.05.This might be related but still dunno.

[xtobix]

This would mean removing all of the changes made by j0lt in order to make this map more balanced.
No.. because there still is the route to easily get up from the water into the ct-bridge house. j0lts new bridgehouse-route makes it too easy to bypass all ct main-positions imo. same with that other new connector route.. it's too easy and quick for cts to switch between both bombspots.


This would make the map look like a mix of gray and green... Do you really think this should appear in a 2011 game?
Aztec always was rather grey than bright, fresh green (beside of the CS:S and CZ version..). I think it should keep it's old charme. i'm just saying that csp_aztec's green looks too fresh and intense and absolutely not realistic. Personally I love jungle-themed maps but csp_aztec looks really artificial and unrealistic. it needs more variety in texturing and small plants in some areas (which no cs fan will want because they think it would make the game "uncompetitive").. ah ye.. I don't think so. It will improve the maps look a lot and won't affect the gameplay in a negative way if it's done the right way (discreet). + It will make the map look like from a 2011 game.


IMHO CSPromod should have its own unique visual style instead if copying someone else's style.
Sure.. but jungle is jungle.. and csp_aztec is only a remake of cs1.6 de_aztec (which was grey). I just think they should put more variety in the looks of that map, because cs1.5 aztec had a sand-ground with stone-paths, 1.6 aztec was more grey with small plants in the green areas, cs:s aztec was dark green and brown like a shithole and cs:go aztec will simply look brighter, more vivid and modern than cs:s aztec. compare these pictures:

http://www.weltweiseversuchung.de/weltreise/erlebtes/mex8ruinen/2180.jpg
http://j0lt.cspromod.com/csp_aztec/screenshots/8.jpg

http://www.kifferstuebchen.de/Sources/kfs/extern/images/mappics/de_aztec.jpg (Counter-Strike 1.5)
http://www.die-alten-saecke.org/inc/images/maps/halflife/cstrike/de_aztec.jpg (Counter-Strike 1.6)
http://ronnys-page.net/mapscz/de_aztec_cz.jpg (Counter-Strike: Condition Zero)
http://www.kojaksworld.com/inc/images/maps/halflife2/cstrike/de_aztec.jpg (Counter-Strike: Source)
http://www.pcgames.de/screenshots/original/2009/09/aztec1.jpg (Crysis Aztec)
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/1/23/683762//CSGO-Aztec.png (Counter-Strike: Global Offensive)

[[EA]]

Sure.. but jungle is jungle.. and csp_aztec is only a remake of cs1.6 de_aztec (which was grey). I just think they should put more variety in the looks of that map, because cs1.5 aztec had a sand-ground with stone-paths, 1.6 aztec was more grey with small plants in the green areas, cs:s aztec was dark green and brown like a shithole and cs:go aztec will simply look brighter, more vivid and modern than cs:s aztec.

Actually, I believe csp_aztec IS a supposed remake of the 1.5 counterpart. But true, it has a 1.6ish feel to it.

[reaver]

I personally like CSP_aztec and the new routes, provides some exiting gameplay imo. However, aztec is not a map played very often in gathers/pcws etc, perhaps theese new improvements will make people play it a bit more?