[concept] de_dust redesign for CSPromod

[sIMson]

Recently, while playing CS 1.6 on de_dust I started wondering about possible changes that would make this map much more balanced and competetive play friendly. After a short brainstorm I started making this concept to visualise what I'm talking about (it's based on the overview of 1.6 de_dust):

http://153.19.170.21/cssite/cspdustconcept.jpg

There are 5 major changes to the original map, marked by numbers:

1. A road from T spawn to bombsite A (let's call it "T banana :P)
2. A road from CT spawn to bombsite B (CT banana?)
3. Bridge to the newly placed bombsite B (see point 5)
4. CT spawn moved in place of the old bombsite B
5. Moving bombsite B to the red area and a COMPLETE redesign of it (I'm thinking of something similar to inferno's small bombsite, I'll update the concept if I'll create something more)

Of course it's just an early concept showing the general idea. The point is to make de_dust (maybe even official csp_dust in future? :)) more balanced than it currently is, because I think every experienced CS 1.6 player will agree that currently CT's have too much advantage, and it's hard for T's to get to B.

Comments and ideas are welcome!

[WildBeast]

Already have a map - csp_dust_b1 (http://cspromod-bg.info/maps/view/csp_dust_b1).

[sIMson]

Duh... I know, but this one is still unfinished, alpha quality and as unbalanced as the original. We still don't have a good, balanced remake of de_dust. Read carefully before posting.

[n69ky]

Hmmmmmmm

[SjN]

I like your idea of "bananas". IMO playing dust in 1.6 as t suxx. Looking forward to testing your map. Will be interesting to see how balanced the new rushtimes are. Cheers

[Matuka]

Already have a map - csp_dust_b1 (http://cspromod-bg.info/maps/view/csp_dust_b1).

Did you even take a look at his post?

[sIMson]

Yes, I did... Guys, did you even read what I wrote? The map that he posted is a BETA with NO CHANGES to dust structure, while what I posted is a REDESIGN CONCEPT for original dust... It's diffrent from existing map. Sry for caps but I hate flaming like this.

Anyway, there was a similar situation with aztec: there already was an unofficial remake but it was not balanced and good enough for CSP, so a diffrent version was made by j0lt (great job :))
IIRC even cashed wrote that original dust layout is too unbalanced for competitive play. That's why I posted this concept - to suggest possible changes to current dust layout. Hope you finally understood.

[tiger]

Yes, I did... Guys, did you even read what I wrote? The map that he posted is a BETA with NO CHANGES to dust structure, while what I posted is a REDESIGN CONCEPT for original dust... It's diffrent from existing map. Sry for caps but I hate flaming like this.

There appears to be a misunderstanding here. Matuka understands the purpose of your post and he was talking to WildBeast who didn't (so wasn't talking to you).

[Lordearon]

I don't see the point in giving CT's the bridge (3).... it will be more difficult to pass underpass as a T? (plus CT's can normally jump that gap with some air strafes)

How about moving T spawn closer to underpass (maybe rotate T spawn closer to underpass; Rotate using a circle with the center on banana (to keep distance to banana the same)? Just move T closer to underpass -right now CT spawn is really close to birds nest at underpass-)

I also thought of having a 2nd entry to B site for T's, but can't think of making anything that wouldn't allow CT's to rush and close it quickly... (unless T's are a bit closer and can prevent CT's from rushing it)... I'm thinking something like the halls & carpet in Inferno (but instead of a balcony, sort of a tunnel thingy)

[sIMson]

There appears to be a misunderstanding here. Matuka understands the purpose of your post and he was talking to WildBeast who didn't (so wasn't talking to you).

LoL, didn't think about it like that, sorry :P But I hate trolls, that's because.

About that bridge: I added it for T's to have more than 1 entry to bombsite B, because otherwise the only way would be through the gate from CT spawn, you must admit. I'm also thinking about some additional entries to B, we'll see...

[DIEEIER]

Hello, i have some imputs here they go.

One of the things that make this map unbalanced is the narrow corridors, the map is very wide open but the connections from each part to another create a bottle neck that advantage the CT's. Creating more narrow corridors and leaving the ones that are causing the problem in the current version untached is not a good solution for me, even less in the way you did them on the first picture. For me the map dont need more of them, and dont need a bombsite relocation, for me de_dust need a tweak on the 2 battle spots that connects Tside from CTside.

This are some ideas of what ive always thought would bring balance to de_dust.

http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/1923/dustbalancing.png

Those are the 2 main connection war points of Dust. Dust2 have 4.

War point 1: The image says it for itself, making a widder tunnel and maybe longer create a more balanced and interesting choke point.

War point 2/3: The point 2 is the underground tunnel, adding Point 3 in the shape of a bridge that goes above Point 2, maybe not so wide as point 2 but a connection nevertheless. This creates interesting sniping spots and rushes (you cover T's crossing underground from the classic high CT sniper spot), and the CT are still having good defending ground because the other end is the same, in other words, the T will still arrive to the same spot they would if they crossed South tunnel of Point 1, having to cross all the way to middle to get to CTbase bombsite.


Well this are my suggestions, they can be tweaked by adding boxes here and there to balance even more. I always liked de_dust, hope you can get to a great final product.

Saluts

[sIMson]

Hey... I like the second idea, this would add a new way to B. Great, thanks. Plz, more constructive feedback :)

[n69ky]

i like the 2. idea too. but don't add it directly above the tunnel
pls, move it a bit in the south....
.... i just drawed a fast n69kybalance ... its more like DIEEIER's idea but i moved the bases plus the bombspots a little.

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/8382/balancen69ky.png

edit: i forgot to add a Doubledoor at CTbase/BombsiteA so you cant look from BombsiteA into the tunnel

[downbad]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/fourjosh/dustokokok.jpg

[DIEEIER]

We are cooking something good. The red lines i did where just to mark the 2 points, never intended them to be the wall mark or whatever. n69ky i like what you did with the point 1 idea.

For downbad suggestion, i think is very de_inferno looking, loosing a lot of de_dust escence, and to balance this map such extreme change is not needed, I believe we can make it while still respecting the original model.

Other thing, i volunteer for modeling and design, cause changing source stuff will be a pain, unless you want to keep css esthetics, if so i dont volunteer for anything.

[downbad]

all i did was move normal CT spawn/bomb site to the left side and add connectors.

[k1no]

I feel like downbads would work but im still getting the feeling that dust is too big in the sense that theres alot of useless areas. also ct rotation from a to b would be impossible.

[alba]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/fourjosh/dustokokok.jpg

Interesting.

[SirK]

Interesting.

i dont like it. the alleys are too straight. at least the ct alleys on the back should be removed. and the balcony too.
think of something different there.

[vapiant]

I think TheSimson's idea is best even though I think ct should be able to get faster into A-Bombspot, because I think it will be very similar to banana rushes in de_inferno. But it's looking good, and I almost can't wait to try it out :D

[SirK]

yep same here, i just dont like the new connectors for a (t and ct side).
think he should make something different there.

[sIMson]

Got some ideas? Coz currently I can't think of anything better :/

[cryeR]

tunnels ! bananas are to fast

http://www.johnsto.co.uk/i/articles/design/making_dust/small/destiny-atrium1a.jpg
http://www.johnsto.co.uk/i/articles/design/making_dust/small/destiny-atrium1b.jpg
http://www.johnsto.co.uk/i/articles/design/making_dust/small/dust-stairs1b.jpg

[Mazzer]

de_dust is a fun map and deffo a classic ;) so many fun games, I agree that it is stacked in favour of cts currently, but perhaps it only needs some minor changes. obviously atm the way to get to site b means u have to go past the area of A but there is an alternative route (nearlY) already with the underpass. Perhaps the underpass could be reworked somehow leading it to B rather than adding many different new passage ways. maybe the underpass could no longer go down but stay on the same level taking away the advantage of a ct sniper ? also just removing the door from the doorway into A could make it less of a shield for awaiting ct's altho at the same time it would also take away the protection of the T protecting the bomb plant.....hmmmm just some thoughts off the top of my head.

[TUROcKdev]

I want this underground section q=) may be epic for the gameplay ;)

[sIMson]

de_dust is a fun map and deffo a classic ;) so many fun games, I agree that it is stacked in favour of cts currently, but perhaps it only needs some minor changes. obviously atm the way to get to site b means u have to go past the area of A but there is an alternative route (nearlY) already with the underpass. Perhaps the underpass could be reworked somehow leading it to B rather than adding many different new passage ways. maybe the underpass could no longer go down but stay on the same level taking away the advantage of a ct sniper ? also just removing the door from the doorway into A could make it less of a shield for awaiting ct's altho at the same time it would also take away the protection of the T protecting the bomb plant.....hmmmm just some thoughts off the top of my head.

That's why I want to move B to where I pointed this in the concept, along with adding this bridge :) Seems harder than I thought to find the best solution to rework this map with balace. But thanks to all of you for your ideas and suggestions, I'll have to think some more about this.

[n3krO]

CT Respawm would be ever nearly to CT banana, CT's allways arrive first to the defending position, if T arrive first the map is badly designed...

[shumped]

Already have a map - csp_dust_b1 (http://cspromod-bg.info/maps/view/csp_dust_b1).

"There are 5 major changes to the original map, marked by numbers:

1. A road from T spawn to bombsite A (let's call it "T banana )
2. A road from CT spawn to bombsite B (CT banana?)
3. Bridge to the newly placed bombsite B (see point 5)
4. CT spawn moved in place of the old bombsite B
5. Moving bombsite B to the red area and a COMPLETE redesign of it (I'm thinking of something similar to inferno's small bombsite, I'll update the concept if I'll create something more)"

dude, stop being retarded. he's talking about changing D1 not porting the original back

[cryeR]

Already have a map - csp_dust_b1 (http://cspromod-bg.info/maps/view/csp_dust_b1).
NOSTEAM WAREZWAREZ same as cspromod.cn =(

http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/6063/sdfu.jpg