The Animation Update Part 1 [August 7]

[Mazzer]

Animation Devlog Part 1.

http://mazzer.cspromod.com/crouch_aim_pistol_preview.jpg (http://media.cspromod.com/devlog/mazzer/crouch_aim_pistol.jpg)
Crouch Aim Pistol (http://media.cspromod.com/devlog/mazzer/crouch_aim_pistol.jpg)

I started working on the animation for CSP at the end of 2009. I aimed originally to get through everything and get the new animations on the new player models for 1.04 release. However as the size of the job became apparent it was clear this wasn’t going to be possible. Looking back at that time now, if I knew what I (we) have learned over those months it was never going to be possible. Also as the focus was on releasing 1.04 as a solid version, adding the content on the magnitude of entirely custom 3rd person animations at that stage would have been unwise. I didn’t mind though, it gave me more time to spend getting the movement to look somewhere near to how I had envisioned it, and you can see the first glimpse of it in the 'animation progress' video we put up on the release of 1.04. Since then I have made some changes to the movement, but no major changes. I’m always trying to improve my work and I’m rarely satisfied that I can do no more to it and that’s how I feel about the movement in CSP, but with the movement at a stage where it was functional and could work in game, I could simply not afford to spend any more time on it. So now I could move on to the other animations that would lead to the game becoming playable in its guise.

During this time between finishing up on the movement animation and going onto the other animations needed, such as jumping firing/reloading etc the port of the game code over to the Orange Box was taking place in a top secret location deep in the German forests. Fast forward a month or so…

With no real instructions on how the animations should be made and implemented into the game we were really going by what we knew or assumed/guessed, but what else could we do. Its not like any of us had made animations to work on the OB before :) I had a brief read over the animation compiling wiki pages that exist and to be honest it nearly all went straight over my head, so the guys have done a great job to understand what's going on and trying getting things to work properly in game, as I have done nothing in that area. Anyway as the guys started trying to get the animations working in game some things worked well, others perhaps were not quite so successful.

As far as I understand it the main problem was in the area of how animations are blended together by the game. Forgive me if I lose anyone from here on in, as I’ll try to explain some of the process of animating that I followed to fix the problem we encountered. The game engine blends together different animations at the same time. That’s how you can move, look around and reload or throw a grenade at the same time. It was in this area where we were struggling to get things to function as they should. The movement didn’t quite look right, animations didn’t blend smoothly instead a transition from reloading or firing to an idle might jar and pop, Hands might not separate from the gun during reloads, it would look quite odd and it was pretty frustrating to see. Basically after some testing, head scratching, rooting around in code and I don’t know whatever else, the guys worked out what the problem was.


So here's a snippet of what i did ;p


http://mazzer.cspromod.com/crouch_strafe_preview.jpg (http://media.cspromod.com/devlog/mazzer/crouch_strafe.jpg)
Crouch Strafe (http://media.cspromod.com/devlog/mazzer/crouch_strafe.jpg)
Random screenshot :)

So to help explain the process here are some pictures from the xsi modtool I used. This is a clip of one a movement file. This is all the file is made up of, just the character moving as it is seen here.
(NOTE: All the xsi screen captured videos are not playing smoothly at the desired fps due to the capture software used).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj9T82tv-vs

Below is the ‘Reference Pose’ this pose is set up when the character is made and is used by the game so it can understand how the other animations should look/be played in relation to this pose. e.g. If a leg is moved on a certain animation, the game can tell where the leg should now be because it knows where it was when it was in the reference pose.


Reference pose layer

http://mazzer.cspromod.com/base_layer_ref_pose_preview.jpg (http://media.cspromod.com/devlog/mazzer/base_layer_ref_pose.jpg)
Base Layer Ref Pose (http://media.cspromod.com/devlog/mazzer/base_layer_ref_pose.jpg)
(Red box highlights the layer feature panel).

The problem we had was that I had originally made the reloading and firing animations the same way I had made the movement. But they needed to be made with the character performing the actions in the ‘Reference Pose’. So basically I had to remake the animations using the xsi mod tool’s ‘layer’ feature. This allowed me to put the character in the 'Reference Pose' on the base layer, and then above of that add another layer with the character in the correct 'Aim Pose' for the weapon and state in question (such as aim_mp5_stand).


Aim Pose Layer

http://mazzer.cspromod.com/aim_layer_pose_preview.jpg (http://media.cspromod.com/devlog/mazzer/aim_layer_pose.jpg)
Aim layer pose (http://media.cspromod.com/devlog/mazzer/aim_layer_pose.jpg)
(Red box highlights the layer feature panel).

Then finally, the action of the reload or fire animated on another layer above.


All Layers

http://mazzer.cspromod.com/all_layers_preview.jpg (http://media.cspromod.com/devlog/mazzer/all_layers.jpg)
All Layers (http://media.cspromod.com/devlog/mazzer/all_layers.jpg)
(Red box highlights the layer feature panel).

Below you can see how the animation would play in the various layer states. It was a great relief when these new animations worked in game and things finally started to take shape. With that problem solved it was then just a case of finishing them all.

Here’s the mp5 reload animation playing in xsimod tool with the aim_mp5_stand pose layer muted.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp5tUyORY6M

Here is the same reload with all layers un-muted, playing as it will look in game.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfHrTe9PhvQ

When animating using the layers, its just the same as animating without layers, at least in this instance. Only the structure of the way the character is posed up in layers is different. So i didnt animate the character in the reference pose, that would just be insanely difficult, and most likely look nothing like what was needed. To most this is likely useless info, but for the odd few or someone wanting to make animations for the engine and is having similar problems, who knows, try this it might work :) As i said, this was the major stumbling block of getting the animations to work properly, so aside from just showing in game footage that will be presented in part 2 i wasn't quite sure what else i could show.

So as the animations stand now, they are all complete except for some extra death animations. I have made one death animation that I would like to see working 100% correctly in game before spending the time making at least another 3 or 4. All the movement is in game and working correctly. The jump currently works like in CSS, not maintaining the direction of travel and instead facing forward. Doublethink and Cashed did start some work with making it 1.6 like and made some progress, but I can’t say if it would be included in 1.05. The rifles and mp5 currently share firing and reloading, which works fine for now, but would prefer to add gun specific reloads, even if it is only a small tweak of the current one.


http://mazzer.cspromod.com/pistol_reload_preview.jpg (http://media.cspromod.com/devlog/mazzer/pistol_reload.jpg)
Pistol Reload (http://media.cspromod.com/devlog/mazzer/pistol_reload.jpg)
Random screenshot :)

So what's left to do to make the animations complete? Firstly as you will probably see in the in-game video in part 2 of this devlog, some of the guns (most with exception of the pistol) are not sitting correctly in the hands, which can make things look a little bit broken when in reality it’s just that the positioning is off, this is being looked into, but not by me so I wont say any more about it. Or maybe there will be some progress in this area by then.Secondly the death mechanic needs to be worked on to function properly with the ragdoll. And thirdly the jump, it would be nice to see it working like in 1.6, but as I said above this might not be possible for the next release. So it’s largely over for me now in terms of adding any animation for 1.05, just a few deaths and any small animations that might be needed to stop any current problems occurring. So, no more major updates from me on the animation front.


http://mazzer.cspromod.com/death_wip_1_preview.jpg (http://media.cspromod.com/devlog/mazzer/death_wip_1.jpg)http://mazzer.cspromod.com/death_wip_2_preview.jpg (http://media.cspromod.com/devlog/mazzer/deat

h_wip_2.jpg)
http://mazzer.cspromod.com/death_wip_3_preview.jpg (http://media.cspromod.com/devlog/mazzer/death_wip_3.jpg)http://mazzer.cspromod.com/death_wip_4_preview.jpg (http://media.cspromod.com/devlog/mazzer/death_wip_4.

jpg)
http://mazzer.cspromod.com/death_wip_5_preview.jpg (http://media.cspromod.com/devlog/mazzer/death_wip_5.jpg)http://mazzer.cspromod.com/death_wip_6_preview.jpg (http://media.cspromod.com/devlog/mazzer/death_wip_6.

jpg)

Death WIP 1 (http://media.cspromod.com/devlog/mazzer/death_wip_1.jpg)
Death WIP 2 (http://media.cspromod.com/devlog/mazzer/death_wip_2.jpg)
Death WIP 3 (http://media.cspromod.com/devlog/mazzer/death_wip_3.jpg)
Death WIP 4 (http://media.cspromod.com/devlog/mazzer/death_wip_4.jpg)
Death WIP 5 (http://media.cspromod.com/devlog/mazzer/death_wip_5.jpg)
Death WIP 6 (http://media.cspromod.com/devlog/mazzer/death_wip_6.jpg)


Ok so here's a run down of what have been working on and what’s left to do. It’s not really possible to give a % of completeness of an animation, at least in my opinion, but I have a list, so here it is. Revisions refer to whether I’ve gone back over the animation and made any considerable changes, (placeholder) simply means that it works, but I want to go back and improve it at some stage. However those not featuring the (placeholder) may still get updates along the way.


Idles
Stand idle - Complete - Revisions - 1
Crouch idle - Complete - Revisions - 1


Movement

Run Movement - Revisions - 1
North - Complete
North East - Complete
North West - Complete
East - complete
South East - Complete
South - Complete
South West - Complete
West - Complete

Walk Movement - Revisions - 2
North - Complete
North East - Complete
North West - Complete
East - Complete
South East - Complete
South - Complete
South West - Complete
West - Complete

Crouch Movement - Revisions - 3
North - Complete
North East - Complete
North West - Complete
East - Complete
South East - Complete
South - Complete
South West - Complete
West - Complete
Jump - Complete - Revisions - 3

Grenade Throw
Stand - Complete - Revisions - 2
Crouch - Complete - Revisions - 2

C4 plant
Stand - Complete - Revisions - 1
Crouch - Complete - Revisions - 1

Reloads
Pistol
Stand - Complete - Revisions - 1
Crouch - Complete - Revisions - 1

SMG
Stand - Complete - Revisions - 1
Crouch - Complete - Revisions - 1

Rifle (currently using SMG)

Fire
Pistol
Stand - Complete - Revisions - 1
Crouch - Complete - Revisions - 1

SMG
Stand - Complete - Revisions - 1
Crouch - Complete - Revisions - 1

Rifle - Currently using SMG

Knife attack
Primary - Complete - Revisions - 1
Secondary - Complete - Revisions - 1

Hit reaction
Gut Hit flinch - Complete - Revisions - 1
Head Hit flinch - Complete - Revisions - 1

Deaths
Headshot Death - Complete(placeholder) - revisions - 0
Front Death -
Back Death -
Left Death - Pending
Right Death - Complete - revisions - 0
Crouch Death -

purple elephants can fly

[amogan]

Awesome, can't wait for 1.05!! <3 CSP TEAM and <3<3 MATT ;D

[reddy?]

Woot!

Where's part 2!?!?!?!

[tiger]

Awesome but we want normal sized screenies, they're too small!

[Mazzer]

hmm they're meant to link to the full sized ones. epic fail me. Alba said there was a problem with image links or soemthing on the forum so it must be that, i'll just have to add the links below. But for the tiny xsi screenshots, the video shows the same and more so just watch them ;p

[CONFIG]

last video dosen't work, it's private

[reddy?]

last video dosen't work, it's private

This.

[gregggggg]

good shit

[drice27]

looks just epic ;)

[thinkor]

w8... a little confused.
we will get proper sized models in 1.05? right?
(so they arent too big like in 1.04)

[tiger]

w8... a little confused.
we will get proper sized models in 1.05? right?
(so they arent too big like in 1.04)

Yes these models have the exact same size as those of 1.6.

[CONFIG]

spread the word!
hltv,gotfrag,cadred,esea, etc
support csp

[zzlottyy]

aah... time to take a shower

[thinkor]

Yes these models have the exact same size as those of 1.6.
nice !! mazzer i know you get this alot... but i freakin luuuv you! :d

[ch1mz)]

very nice, this LIKE:D

[yuri]

Seems to be the most anticipated devlog in the long history of CSP :D

The anim process is truly hard and undocumented as we can see. The reload anim is perfect :)

The L33t model has not been shown yet, maybe the room for later post edit xD

Pls ask alba for a full sized image fix... this old website is broken in many ways.

Very sweet results so far. Lookin forward to the 2nd part!

//Support your idea of replicating differences among holding of different guns :)

[skykov]

Good shit looking forward to the 2nd part

[alba]

Thumbs up mazz as usual, I fixed the links in your post just now so there's a text link below each screenshot.

[w0otie]

Good job Mazzer.
luv mp5 reload animation <3

[tiger]

Hey Mazz why'd you remove the links that alba just added?

[Mazzer]

some mice got into the forums and chewed up some wires, they're back now...the links

[sevoii]

looking good

[hugoooo]

the only thing i want to see is the hs animation

if its like in 1.6 (backflip) then i will play csp, if not.. bye

[alba]

the only thing i want to see is the hs animation

if its like in 1.6 (backflip) then i will play csp, if not.. bye

Welcome to 6 months ago... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTBOygU-_R8) ;-)

[17bit]

Finally, after months of flaming, raging and whining, you have provided us with hope. And thank you for that.

[Lordearon]

nice, can see why it's taking so long. looks great and you guys were right, an in-game vid is what we really want now :)

[HavoC^]

Finally, after months of flaming, raging and whining, you have provided us with hope. And thank you for that.


Agreed!

[vctm]

Awesome work Mazzer and others! Great to get an update.

How far away is part 2?

[smartin]

cool bro

[SPUNJ]

January 2011

[esk]

Great work as always mazz and everyone on the team, can't wait for the second part :)

[IMTYPING]

pink elephants will finaly be implemented in the game :D <3
THEN 1.05 is going to be awesome

[Chris]

Very nice, very much looking forward to the second part.
GJ

[cspfans]

Mazzer ， i don't know what are u talking about ?!

[dunadan]

Great stuff, seems way more complicated process than I thought. Thanks a lot Mazzer for your dedication. ;)

[Rampage]

i cant believe) this is real 1.6 on source engine) very nice)

[nki1]

is it just me or does the pistol look too big in 3rd person?

anyways, great to see that it works :)

[Mazzer]

is it just me or does the pistol look too big in 3rd person?

anyways, great to see that it works :)

i hope some scaling of weapons will still take place ;)

[haGisson]

that's just awesome guys! good job!

[CREDiBLE]

This devlog really gave me a warm and fuzzy feeling inside. The beacons of hope has been re-lit!

[Vainglory]

Great work Mazzer. Can't wait to play 1.05 and see all your animations.

[xtobix]

i think it's cool. :> rly awesome work. i will LOVE your death animations!

[brainz]

omg ..... ILOVECS ILOVECSPROMOD ILOVEMATT ILOVEALBA ILOVEPROMODTEAM .....


Marry me PLease ...

LOL i hope this is the right section for this ..... ahahahahaha (k)(k)(k)

[Vanish]

Instead of gonin' crazy, like brainz.. i just want ti tell you that you all is doing a job. Not an awesome. but the step above awesome (:

Thanks (:

[Jobashi]

good job Mazzer, it's nice to see some progress!
Keep it up

[element13]

Nice!!!! :D

[swokor]

Thanks Mazzer, it's look really great !

[doggles]

Looks good man. Can you elaborate a little on the difference between jumping animations in Source and 1.6?

referring to this line specifically:

The jump currently works like in CSS, not maintaining the direction of travel and instead facing forward.

I guess I'm just having a hard time visualizing what this means.

[haGisson]

Looks good man. Can you elaborate a little on the difference between jumping animations in Source and 1.6?

referring to this line specifically:

The jump currently works like in CSS, not maintaining the direction of travel and instead facing forward.

I guess I'm just having a hard time visualizing what this means.

same here!

[Mazzer]

yes sure, this was originally brought to my attention by doublethink, i too didnt understand what he meant at first. currently in 1.04 when you are strafing your legs are facing towards where you aim. the css jump that is used in 1.04 faces the whole body including the legs to the direction you are aimed. in 1.6 if you are strafing and you jump, the top half of the body faces where you are aiming, and the legs follow the direction of the strafe. this is what we would like to achieve.

[haGisson]

aaah, got it! thanks! :)

[brainz]

yes sure, this was originally brought to my attention by doublethink, i too didnt understand what he meant at first. currently in 1.04 when you are strafing your legs are facing towards where you aim. the css jump that is used in 1.04 faces the whole body including the legs to the direction you are aimed. in 1.6 if you are strafing and you jump, the top half of the body faces where you are aiming, and the legs follow the direction of the strafe. this is what we would like to achieve.

Apart from the visual changes that are needed i wanted to ask you whether the speed of the jump and projectile coordinates are same as cs1.6 or do they need some working to do as well????

[Mazzer]

thats not something im involved with, so someone else will have to answer that.

[oolz]

Will the terrorist hold his AK-47 by the hip while standing/walking/running like in 1.6? The CT should not. :)

[HavoC^]

Will the terrorist hold his AK-47 by the hip while standing/walking/running like in 1.6? The CT should not. :)

I hope they make it more realistic, like when running. Weapon to the hip, and sneaking; up to the shoulders, if you know what im saying. Keep up the good work guys!

[yuri]

...
1.6 feeling not a fancy realistic one :/

[Massey]

Just like 1.6 and it's all good, no need to change anything...

Or how about AWP by the hip?

[Mazzer]

i talked with cashed about this before, and at least at that time he said we would just have 1 aim for the guns, so there will not be the lower aim for the T in 1.05. If this changes ofc, u will know :)

[Massey]

Very disappointing to hear that.

I don't think I'm the only one who's disappointed with this. That is just so anti-CS look.
We can't have everything I guess.

It should be implemented at some point IMO.

[n69ky]

I think we can be happy we get the new models. I will tolerate some changes like no hipgunholding even if i love the leet hold it that way in 1.6 because yoi can tell by the holding what kinda weapon it is/was.

[Mazzer]

as far as i was aware, this was just a temporary thing with the aim of adding it later, at least i hope so anyway.

[Massey]

Dunno why I forgot to mention this, but it's not just the look that changes, but also the hitboxes.

The T holding AK next to his hip makes it easier to hit the torso of course. No left arm (& right to a lesser extent) blocking it. So it does change something relevant to the gameplay, no?

[Rampage]

when we can see ter. model in game?

[n69ky]

Dunno why I forgot to mention this, but it's not just the look that changes, but also the hitboxes.

The T holding AK next to his hip makes it easier to hit the torso of course. No left arm (& right to a lesser extent) blocking it. So it does change something relevant to the gameplay, no?


you mean it would make it FAIR? ^^

[Mazzer]

maybe we will be able to see the T model in the in game vid, but that depends on whether the team decides it is ready.

[n69ky]

I would wait till 1.05 release.

[nki1]

I really think you should take the time to implement the ak holding. Even if it takes a week longer then.

[yuri]

They can still work at the anims and models past the 1.05 launch, remember :)
There will be enough room for implementing/creating/tweaking those things in the future /if there is any future for CSP :D/

[Massey]

you mean it would make it FAIR? ^^

Well, the AK is more powerful than the Colt...

In the end, we should stick to the original design. :P

[n69ky]

in teh end you do no HS, am i right? :P

[Massey]

lol

:grin:

Tactics ))))))))))))))))))))

[aim]

you guys gotta somehow get working with hidden path on this, i just want this amazing game to be played. Even in it 1.04 its still super fun!

[tiger]

you guys gotta somehow get working with hidden path on this, i just want this amazing game to be played.

How would that help them? HPE are just a development team that Valve hired to update CSS, nothing more. The only thing that would be great would be getting on Steamworks so the game/updates would be available on Steam.

[blackaddR]

i love this so much. Really cannot wait for this to be released.

[n69ky]

Part 3 is comming

[blackaddR]

3?

[tiger]

Yes, 3D video of the animations. I think you'll have to wear special glasses, though.

[Lordearon]

I don't think they can top part 2 though

[n69ky]

exploding bombspots

[flow]

What do you mean with part 3? There isn't even a part 2 yet. :D For part 2 I could imagine that they are trying to film and make a short CSP fragmovie. This would explain why it takes so long. :)

[blackaddR]

we live in hope

[n69ky]

i like spreadin' rumors ;X

[steelchamp204]

the models still look to big.

[[EA]]

Hmmmm, do I smell Mazzer's Part 2 devlog coming soon??!?!?!?

*sniff sniff*

[TUROcKdev]

maybe =) or are that my socks ? =D

[Mazzer]

still some things to fix i think b4 that

[DanLegenD]

two weeks since last response, hows part 2 coming?

[Mazzer]

no news, sorry

[n3krO]

2 weeks and no news? :X

[Vainglory]

2 weeks and no news? :X

This. v
no news, sorry

[n69ky]

2 weeks and no news? :X
This. v

no news, sorry


This /\

[n3krO]

I mean, that's sad that Mazzer got no news in 2 weeks, i've read what Mazzer said -.-

[Mith]

i find the best way to let people know that I'm sad when someone has no news for 2 weeks is to just type "I'm sad that person has no news for two weeks"

that's just me though

[Oni456]

This all looks very promising, thank you very much for the update.

[Lordearon]

you're welcome, Sister456

[n69ky]

sneak peak vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nF9sqI4FmQ&NR=1

[Vainglory]

Lol, 1.05 will be epic? 0.o

[sIMson]

You dare to doubt it? :P

[Ipath]

looks like Dancing Stars xD

[jasofisle]

´tis kind of amusing that i´m without internet atm, so i hope that i´ll be ready again when its time to play 1.05 :D

[[EA]]

Mazzer... :-)

[SchruteBuck]

C'mon give us something

[n69ky]

i would give you a timemaschine so you could go forward in time so you don't have to wait like 31 more days......

[sIMson]

U so sure about those 31 days? :D

[likfik]

promise 2010

[sIMson]

Hmmmm... Promises always sound promising, but there may happen something unexpected that could make the move the release in time a bit.

[SecreT]

i would give you a timemaschine so you could go forward in time so you don't have to wait like 31 more days......

This year obviously means 31 Jan like last time(1.04), so your timemachine is short 31 days.

[n69ky]

yeah since we have 1. jan 2011

habbeh new year dudes!

[n3krO]

This year obviously means 31 Jan like last time(1.04), so your timemachine is short 31 days.

At least 31 december or i won't help CSPromod anymore, they've promissed 2010...

[n69ky]

At least 31 december or i won't help CSPromod anymore, they've promissed 2010...

how you helped csp so far? :O

[sIMson]

At least 31 december or i won't help CSPromod anymore, they've promissed 2010...

w00t show us how much did ya do for CSP? :D

[blackaddR]

lol burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrned.

In all fairness, you can help by showing support, that is pretty much it :P

[n69ky]

lol burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrned.

In all fairness, you can help by showing support, that is pretty much it :P

yeah and i think the CSP team NEEDs some ppls who will always believe in them. I know there are much ppl out there who have NOT registered but read everyday in this forum. please keep in mind n69ky was the "very first cspromodspammer" and "BEST 1.05 player of the very first CSPromod Beta 1.05 match with score 26-0"

i lawled hawrd

[tiger]

You were also the first person to exploit the god mode.

[n69ky]

LIAR LIAR! there is no such thing!

[tiger]

LIAR LIAR! there is no such thing anymore!

fix'd

[n69ky]

asap you play against me you'll say, its back again you liar! ;)

[sIMson]

pwn3d :D Fail, admit it :)

[n3krO]

how you helped csp so far? :O

Made more than 300 guys to play cspromod 1.04
If it doesn't help i don't know what you want........

[n69ky]

and there is proove of that?
u mad?

''.''

i wasn't serious u know?

[tiger]

Made more than 300 guys to play cspromod 1.04
If it doesn't help i don't know what you want........

As if playing a beta that wasn't meant to be played on the long term (the purpose was mostly to get feedback and that's been done since February) helps the mod. Plus I find that hard to believe.

[n3krO]

On steam i had 600friends, all i had with source played cspromod 1.04 at least one time, so even if you don't belive, i don't need to prove nothing, i had put all my faith on this game, cuz actually i play more cod:mw2 than cs, i'm really tired of 1.6 old graphics, and i don't like source/cz....

The game aims to connect the 3 big cs communities (1.6, cz and source players) and you promised to release 1.05 in december, it would be unprofessional if you don't do so, as i've argued with Ubisoft about AC:B only being made on 2011 for pc, now i'm arguing with you....

[n69ky]

and you thnk those guys played because of you csp? :O

[n3krO]

my friends? yes, they had no idea about CSPromod

[Diablorunner]

Why arguing about this ...cmon guys. if they need some days in januari to fix the last stuffs it wont baffle us that much ... but thats just what i think.

[n3krO]

Why arguing about this ...cmon guys. if they need some days in januari to fix the last stuffs it wont baffle us that much ... but thats just what i think.

It's not about what we can/cannot wait... it's about compromise, i know they don't get paid, but when they accept to make this game reallity and our dream truth i think they assumed the responsibility to connect CS players, but if they promise things that they can do, they do better not promising cuz ppl won't get you seriusly later...

[n69ky]

I'm done with this forum. (except for maps)

Cya in 2011.

[Mazzer]

aww shucks what can we do about all this conflict?

[[EA]]

fap?

[downbad]

fap?

That would still involve beating someone/thing.

[Mazzer]

well heres an attempt at a remedy, no doubt the resolution is truly unacceptable and the software sucks and its not in game and the anim should do this and that instead, but for now one of the deaths is like this http://mazzer.cspromod.com/death_preview.mp4 and at the cut ragdoll takes over.

[[EA]]

Thanks for showing us this little snippet of your work Mazzer. When I have low health I'm going to jump off Cat on de_dust2 just so I can see this animation lol.

[Diablorunner]

Perhaps call Abdisamad Mohamed for some serious answers about this one, seems to be a hard question man. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhgwxYtHUBw He almost had an answer on that one. What if SpawN moved 0.01 sec earlier? "history will be made"

But seriously i can understand many will be a bit disapointed, since the counterstrike-scene need this mod pretty urgent more or less and hoping it will turn out to be something good. As far as i know there are also some proplayers in the best 1.6 clans that keeps an eye on the updates and minor progresses on this CSP-project, like Carn for example (the most consistant IGL on toplevel of the last years). But we all know the devs doing this for free and it takes almost all of their sparetime and they work really hard to finish it off giving us a high qualityproduct. +1 month delay wont be THAT much of a disaster....but time will tell, we can just w8N'C.

[n3krO]

well heres an attempt at a remedy, no doubt the resolution is truly unacceptable and the software sucks and its not in game and the anim should do this and that instead, but for now one of the deaths is like this http://mazzer.cspromod.com/death_preview.mp4 and at the cut ragdoll takes over.

Is that a kill on the chest? at least the ragdoll looks like that... or side ed shot :D

[Mazzer]

yes it is one of the side shots indeed.

[n3krO]

Nice, cs 1.6 was really needing that, you ed shot some on on the back and he jumps back O.o

[shumped]

Nice, cs 1.6 was really needing that, you ed shot some on on the back and he jumps back O.o

eeerrh no? if you shot them in the back they'd fall forward.

and mazzer how many different animations will be made for death? 3? 4?

[Ganjahsoup]

Damn Mazzer, you are so freaking awesome. <3

[n69ky]

eeerrh no? if you shot them in the back they'd fall forward.

and mazzer how many different animations will be made for death? 3? 4?

360!

for each degree you can be killed from!

lol... yeah im joking :P

[blackaddR]

360!

for each degree you can be killed from!

lol... yeah im joking :P

lol that would bretty cool :P i'm right thinking it is only 4 sections yeah?

[n3krO]

eeerrh no? if you shot them in the back they'd fall forward.

The body moves to the front, but the ragdoll jumps to back -.-''

[blackaddR]

The body moves to the front, but the ragdoll jumps to back -.-''

The animations SHOULD show them falling forward if they're shot in the back, then it will fall into rag doll just as the player model hits floor

[n3krO]

The animations SHOULD show them falling forward if they're shot in the back, then it will fall into rag doll just as the player model hits floor

Yes, it's what DevTeam is trying to do, i was just poiting what happens at 1.6 :P

[blackaddR]

oh right, yeah lol the 1.6 animations look good but behave badly (when comparing to modern age games)

[fingerling123]

You forgot to put the jump animations in the to do list. Also I noticed there is no shadow underneath the player, so now it looks like they're floating.

[WildBeast]

And we are still awaiting part 2 :D...

[blackaddR]

When 1.05 comes out, you won't need to worry (i'm sure) of such things. This, all being well, will be the last major release for a while. Incremental patches will follow with such things as the shadow spot under players and jump animations - if they're not done..

[Mazzer]

indeedy i think part 2 is not gonna happen tbh just check it out on 31st

[n3krO]

indeedy i think part 2 is not gonna happen tbh just check it out on 31st

so the thread name doesn't fit with the truth: The Animation Update Part 1

:P

[lionskel]

indeedy i think part 2 is not gonna happen tbh just check it out on 31st

In what sense to make the description of the animation after the release of 1,05? This is equivalent to a release advertising the film after it rolled into theaters. Many of the major gaming sites have written about the output of CSP 1.05 and put a video on the animation-year-old.

[likfik]

Many of the major gaming sites have written about the output of CSP 1.05 and put a video on the animation-year-old.
yes because there is nothing more,and it is sad...

[yudee]

Why did any beta tester make a short video about cspromod 1.05 beta gameplay?

[n3krO]

Why did any beta tester make a short video about cspromod 1.05 beta gameplay?

Because they can't.... they have rules stated by dev team....

[Spritz]

When 1.05 comes out, you won't need to worry (i'm sure) of such things. This, all being well, will be the last major release for a while. Incremental patches will follow with such things as the shadow spot under players and jump animations - if they're not done..

Haha you are kidding right? They would do the same after 1.04.

[blackaddR]

Haha you are kidding right? They would do the same after 1.04.

A dev clarified my post with his own after that. So no, i'm not kidding. Right?...

[Ruffe]

What happened with the awesome animations from the animations progressvideo? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTBOygU-_R8

[tiger]

What happened with the awesome animations from the animations progressvideo? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTBOygU-_R8

Blame Valve for making the implementation of animations so fucked up in Source 2007.

[Mazzer]

when we get new models, i will make new animations, look at the animation blending files, and possibly make a new one based on the tf2 example.

[n3krO]

when we get new models, i will make new animations, look at the animation blending files, and possibly make a new one based on the tf2 example.

i want animations based on cs1.6 :S i never liked css animations and i dont remember tf2 ones :$

[Mazzer]

the blending (.qc) files only control how the animations are played together, making one like the tf2 example is nothing to do with making them look like tf2 animations.

[zwacki]

do we have a model update ? I mean can we have a screenshot :P

[Ruffe]

Mazzer how's the progress with the new models?

[n69ky]

i hope Mazzer aint mad 'bout me, telling you guys,
that mazzer has no time *atm because he is taking a/some animation course/s.

*atm is a period of time not known by n69ky

[blackaddR]

You have to go and spoil things, don't you..

[MrBaruth]

Sry if stupid question but could you guys dont just use the cs:go models and resize them when cs:go come out ? The animations should be much better than everything a so small dev team could achieve.

http://www.hlportal.de/images/images/original/33263.jpg

[n69ky]

from a legal point of view, without a SDK it's not allowed to use them.
and even if there were a SDK, scaling is only(?) possible when you recompile them, which is due to copyrights not possible on a legal way.

[majkool]

These models are ugly, only my opinion.

[blackaddR]

Those bricks in the background are Massive!

[n69ky]

Those bricks in the background are Massive!

right i'd say 1/2 the size.

[sIMson]

Sry if stupid question but could you guys dont just use the cs:go models and resize them when cs:go come out ? The animations should be much better than everything a so small dev team could achieve.

http://www.hlportal.de/images/images/original/33263.jpg

Is it just me or these T models look retarded? I mean they look like some sissy shoplifters while they should rather look like badass terrorists.

[TRIPL3 H]

Animation of run, running with knife and squatting still looks funny.
I also want to note that when you kill enemy with AWP (with zoom) it looks sharp drop animation

I say to you as a player, who has played for a long time in cs 1.5 and cs 1.6

[Rampage]

your can use endorphin for create reallystic (sorry for my engl) animations (ephoria animation engine) . for example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBTGWv2NBJU)

[TRIPL3 H]

Rampage, i am not a developer ;)

[Rampage]

так я и не тебе писал, а мазеру

[n69ky]

так я и не тебе писал, а мазеру


english or PM.

[Rampage]

engl below

[majkool]

engl below

You mean this one from signature or maybe you want to write 'above'? :)

[Rampage]

i wrote about endorphin animation engine. check my previosly posts

[majkool]

Yes this animation are great and will be great if they do it for CSP.

[cutjthientaj]

terr need a mask, . !

counter need a bluetooth ear .

[Rampage]

i think the new T model will be Fenix.
1) simple model
2) best model in cs (style is everything)
When we can see new model in csp? 1.08 version so good. Just need add new model and change some animations (running model, use HE, reloading weapons. I wanna see new version in 2012 (jan-febr) whith new model an d animations :)

[baho]

Three death animation suggestions here:

* first, please make them faster, they seem a bit in slow motion right now;

** secondly, please make the animations switch to ragdoll once they hit ANY object other then the floor but conserve the momentum from the animation. It will make them much more believable, better looking and will stop them clipping with walls and other objects;

*** last but not least, please, enable the cl_ragdollcollide command for those that are interested in using it and have the necessary horsepower. This also ties with second suggestion, where an animation will switch to ragdoll if it falls over another dead body.



I really hope this are not difficult to do :(


edit: watch at 3:02 to understand why i ask for 3rd suggestion http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o30lcEr49cY

[n69ky]

Three death animation suggestions here:

* first, please make them faster, they seem a bit in slow motion right now;

** secondly, please make the animations switch to ragdoll once they hit ANY object other then the floor but conserve the momentum from the animation. It will make them much more believable, better looking and will stop them clipping with walls and other objects;

*** last but not least, please, enable the cl_ragdollcollide command for those that are interested in using it and have the necessary horsepower. This also ties with second suggestion, where an animation will switch to ragdoll if it falls over another dead body.



I really hope this are not difficult to do :(


edit: watch at 3:02 to understand why i ask for 3rd suggestion http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o30lcEr49cY

1. most probably gonna change with the new models/animations in the future.

2. ...if we did that, no animation will never be played, since the foot touches the floor in every animation even if its just abrief moment in the beginning.

3. I dont see why not. but i'd say desabled on default.

[baho]

Please read more carefully next time:


** secondly, please make the animations switch to ragdoll once they hit ANY object other then the floor but conserve the momentum from the animation. It will make them much more believable, better looking and will stop them clipping with walls and other objects;

I'm sure they can tag the floors with a specific ID that doesn't break the animations. All other objects (including dead bodies) should break the animation into full ragdoll mode.

Also, remove shadows from dead bodies and increase the velocity of grenades (or more exactly lower their friction with air or whatever is there in the code). The distance they go si considerably lower then 1.6

[tiger]

Saying "just make them go straight to ragdolls as soon as they hit a wall" is something anyone can think of and it's simply not possible to do with the current animations.

[n3krO]

make a new func for hammer, func_floor.
When the body hits anything else func_floor object it goes into ragdoll.

it's just stupid to have the headshot animations finish when the body crashes against a wall xD

[baho]

You still didn't get it. Yes, the animation should end and ragdoll mode should take over but PRESERVE the momentum of the animation so that it looks believable and actually COOL! We are upgrading to source for a reason and having bodies clip into walls and boxes shouldn't be acceptable anymore.

[tiger]

Don't you think we realize that? It's simply not possible with the way the current animations are done. Saul has tried every way possible to make this work and he has come to the conclusion the death anims need to be done in a different way.

It's not like we live having player models clipping through walls.

[baho]

Obviously this are just suggestions not commands or whatever. I realize this must be things pretty difficult to do for a team doing a mod so it's np. I just hope this can be done some day. Personally i think the recoil at the moment is perfect. Not perfect as in identical to 1.6 but perfect in it's own way, the CSP way. Models and animations need further work, but other then this stuff and some other tweaks here and there, it isn't much left to be done.

When you are done with this, it's time to raise the bar over 1.6 otherwise we wouldn't have accomplished anything but a new paint job over an antique. And this is where my 2nd suggestion should be taken into consideration. It's no rush to do it now obviously.

[yuri]

There are already over 80 bugs in the tracker - still nowhere near 1.6.

[nki1]

You still didn't get it. Yes, the animation should end and ragdoll mode should take over but PRESERVE the momentum of the animation so that it looks believable and actually COOL! We are upgrading to source for a reason and having bodies clip into walls and boxes shouldn't be acceptable anymore.
Don't agree. I got no problem with the models clipping from some time to time. If the anims look good, I think this is only a very minor annoyance.

[n3krO]

Don't agree. I got no problem with the models clipping from some time to time. If the anims look good, I think this is only a very minor annoyance.

Once again, good =/= perfect.

Cs1.6 is good enough. CSPromod aims to be perfect :D

[incubus]

You still didn't get it. Yes, the animation should end and ragdoll mode should take over but PRESERVE the momentum of the animation so that it looks believable and actually COOL! We are upgrading to source for a reason and having bodies clip into walls and boxes shouldn't be acceptable anymore.

This is not the right technique to make it look good. A ragdoll is a system of rigid bodies which are constrained by joints. The forces on the rigid bodies are computed and in turn joint rotations are computed. What we need to do is to play animation on a body and 'simulate' it at the same time, linearly blending from the animation and angles given by the simulation.

I honestly don't know if this advanced ragdoll technique is provided in the free version of source engine or not, but it's certainly there in Havok engine as seen in L4D.

[baho]

Maybe it's just tastes but personally i would prefer a lot more simple ragdoll deaths then this 1.6 like animations that clip through any object and look pretty bad too. But i would do one little change that could potentially make it look loads better then current animations: add bullet force so that when a guy dies, the ragdoll won't simply fall down as in css, but get pushed back depending on where the killing shot hit. And to make a look a like 1.6 "legendary headshot animation" just add a little bigger force for bullets hitting the head. This, in my opinion, would be much better then current scripted death animations and they would look different every time.

But of course this are just aesthetics, priorities are others.

[yuri]

...Tweaked ragdolls are already here... Take AWP and shoot some mofo the the back of his head.

[free]

Maybe it's just tastes but personally i would prefer a lot more simple ragdoll deaths then this 1.6 like animations that clip through any object and look pretty bad too. But i would do one little change that could potentially make it look loads better then current animations: add bullet force so that when a guy dies, the ragdoll won't simply fall down as in css, but get pushed back depending on where the killing shot hit. And to make a look a like 1.6 "legendary headshot animation" just add a little bigger force for bullets hitting the head. This, in my opinion, would be much better then current scripted death animations and they would look different every time.

But of course this are just aesthetics, priorities are others.

Such approach was taken multiple times before in CSS and other Source based mods and it never looked good. I'm not saying that this can't be done but we already have many SourceMod plugins that add bullet force a ragdoll and it looks very very very bad. Mostly probably because the mass of each bone is the same etc. butimnot an animator. Remember that any physics engine is designet to mimic reality and such death animations we aim at here are unrealistic.

A bullet even at a very high speed has such a small mass that it can't force a body to fly away. The force is as strong as the force of the guns recoil that the shooter feels after each shot.

[baho]

Such approach was taken multiple times before in CSS and other Source based mods and it never looked good. I'm not saying that this can't be done but we already have many SourceMod plugins that add bullet force a ragdoll and it looks very very very bad. Mostly probably because the mass of each bone is the same etc. butimnot an animator. Remember that any physics engine is designet to mimic reality and such death animations we aim at here are unrealistic.

A bullet even at a very high speed has such a small mass that it can't force a body to fly away. The force is as strong as the force of the guns recoil that the shooter feels after each shot.

I had a feeling such a response would come. Well, the solution as i see it, is to make the lower part of the ragdoll (legs) heavier so that the body won't go flying unrealistically, but have a similar behavior to the current (or 1.6) HS animation.

I'm curious, what kind of knowledge do i need to have to work on such stuff in the source engine? I mean, to make such modifications to the ragdolls, like different weights to different parts of the body and adding different force to same bullet depending where it hits the body?

[nki1]

I say fuck realism. The best thing on 1.6 are the anims, not only the hs anim, but all of them. Imo if Source had 1.6 anims, it would have been a success in first place.

[n3krO]

I say fuck realism. The best thing on 1.6 are the anims, not only the hs anim, but all of them. Imo if Source had 1.6 anims, it would have been a success in first place.

Don't take me wrong, i love the animations of cs1.6, first thing i thought when i've played CSS was: "Was that an headshot? it didn't look like!".

But then, cs1.6 anims are perfect but crashing to a wall and keep that same animation is not that good. Just think about this like dev team did with the weapons drop system. The weapons now drop like in cs1.6 plus when they crash into anything they act like a physic item (and the bullets can't move it).

My idea was to make the animations something like that, make a way to stop an animation in half way if something interrupts it and turn inmeadtly into a ragdoll. I don't say it's easy but i think it's not imposible at all since ragdoll is part of source engine and u already introduced player's death animation into the engine.

[yuri]

It's possible but NOT with the current animations. Period.

[n69ky]

It's possible but NOT with the current animations. Period.
------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------


underlined FFS

[n3krO]

It's possible but NOT with the current animations. Period.
------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------

underlined FFS

and bold FFS xD

[baho]

What's so special with the current animations that makes this not possible?

[PutridBeing]

What's so special with the current animations that makes this not possible?
New models + new animations = What is the point?

[n3krO]

New models + new animations = What is the point?

that was not the question. The question is: Why it's imposible to do what have been suggested with the current animations?

[n69ky]

why is dividing with zero in math impossible and why does it result in 'infinity' in physics?

[wHEElEr]

that was not the question. The question is: Why it's imposible to do what have been suggested with the current animations?

its called, a waste of time.

why rework everything when were going to have new models soon.

brain much.

[n3krO]

why is dividing with zero in math impossible and why does it result in 'infinity' in physics?

Hahaha, great you touch it. When you divide with zero in physics you are dividing for 1/∞ or 1/-∞. Why? Cuz those are the 2 numbers that are more near to Zero. How to do it? let's see: 5 : 1/∞ = 5*∞ = ∞.

One thing is when we want the value of an graphic in one point (Xa) and other is the limit on both sides of such point. I could extend explainning it better but i think that if you know that x/0 = ∞ then you should know anything i would tell ya :D


its called, a waste of time.

why rework everything when were going to have new models soon.

brain much.

it's code related and the code would not change only cuz the animation change. At least that's what my logic says :D

[n69ky]

I was not literaly asking tho. lol

just saying, stop asking over and over, its answered with "we have tried to add it, we couldn't do it right away, so its impossible for now" :P

like when someone gives you the answer "i dont know." ... you dont ask further why he doesnt know.. lol :P

[Fodes773]

Add more T-Model and CT-Model please Mazzer ! :)

[n3krO]

I was not literaly asking tho. lol

just saying, stop asking over and over, its answered with "we have tried to add it, we couldn't do it right away, so its impossible for now" :P

like when someone gives you the answer "i dont know." ... you dont ask further why he doesnt know.. lol :P

i just answered cuz u could think i didn't knew the answer xDDD

Now i can stop asking cuz u already answered u didn't know why it won't work with this animations :DDD

[majkool]

What about the speed animations, can you fix it in current model for 1.09?

[n3krO]

What about the speed animations, can you fix it in current model for 1.09?

i think u mean the headshot animation that appears to be in slowmotion?

I think it would be not hard to fix but i think that if no new models + animation are coming for csp1.09 i think mazzer should fix it :X (just change the times between each sequence of the headshot animation to make it look faster?).

[majkool]

Yes, and what about start time it will be fixed in 1.09 for all animations?

[Fodes773]

Add other models. This is an urgent need to add other models in the 1.09 :(

[blackaddR]

Add other models. This is an urgent need to add other models in the 1.09 :(

Keep dreaming but that wont happen for 1.09.

[n69ky]

Maybe if we release 2013 ;,)

[n3krO]

Maybe if we release 2013 ;,)

we need new models for 2012 :X the world will end ok?

[n69ky]

No I mean, more than one model per side :P

[Fodes773]

Yet you have made ​​2 (SAS | LEET) why you stop at two models. I think you made ​​a mistake by neglecting the models

[majkool]

Add other models. This is an urgent need to add other models in the 1.09 :(

Other models will be in about 1 year maybe later, who knows and the end is close xD

[Fodes773]

Other models will be in about 1 year maybe later, who knows and the end is close xD

Why ? models are one of the most important things for me. But the animations are made, there are just models do. it does not take 2 years anyway: p

[majkool]

Why ? models are one of the most important things for me. But the animations are made, there are just models do. it does not take 2 years anyway: p

I don't know I'm not a developer and part of the team so I only think that will take 1 year maybe more, but end of the world is close so they don't have to do it :E

[Fodes773]

I don't know I'm not a developer and part of the team so I only think that will take 1 year maybe more, but end of the world is close so they don't have to do it :E

We must awaken the Mazzer! Or make a donation to buy the right equipment Mazzer x)

[[EA]]

Why ? models are one of the most important things for me. But the animations are made, there are just models do. it does not take 2 years anyway: p

Different models for CTs and Ts aren't really a priority at the moment. AND the models at the moment could look A LOT better. Don't worry, we got until December 2012, so like a year and a couple months (give or take).

Edit---

You don't awaken Mazzer. Mazzer awakens you.

[Fodes773]

I'm a fan of Promod, it's true that there are many more important things to do than other models but the only two good models quickly become boring. I'll leave it to me. the blood decals are impressive

DO NOT STOP is mainly thanks to you that cs 1.6 has a new life in 2011/2012 We love cs;)

[n3krO]

I'm a fan of Promod, it's true that there are many more important things to do than other models but the only two good models quickly become boring. I'll leave it to me. the blood decals are impressive

DO NOT STOP is mainly thanks to you that cs 1.6 has a new life in 2011/2012 We love cs;)

cs1.6 has not a new life. Cs1.6 has a son! CZ is cs1.6 brother, CSS and CS:GO are cs1.6 bastards sons xD

[Fodes773]

cs1.6 has not a new life. Cs1.6 has a son! CZ is cs1.6 brother, CSS and CS:GO are cs1.6 bastards sons xD

+1
I have definitely have fun

[Pitty^_^]

Am I the only one finding it hard to get the 1.6 feeling in a game with animations looking very similar to the source game? Even if the recoil in csp is close to 1.6, is it hard to find it much less random than source because of the look of it.
I think it is much more important to focus on getting some smaller and better looking models and animations than a lot of the other stuff at this point.

(note: this is all my opinion, other peoples may have other priorities)

[yuri]

getting some smaller ... modelsI stopped reading after this...

[n3krO]

I stopped reading after this...

True! No words to what he's asking to O.o

[Fodes773]

every things are important in a CSP, the models are a reminder that we play a csp is why it is important, but like the HUD or how to play, let the developpers to judge which is most urgent in the 1.8

[n3krO]

every things are important in a CSP, the models are a reminder that we play a csp is why it is important, but like the HUD or how to play, let the developpers to judge which is most urgent in the 1.8

it's 1.08!

When they do 1.11 how will u call it? 11.1?

[Fodes773]

it's 1.08!

When they do 1.11 how will u call it? 11.1?

.........

[majkool]

.........

He is right, don't mislead this.

[Fodes773]

Of course, it's 1.08, but it is understood, therefore, comment is just to say I am wrong is not the 1.8 ..... useless

[n3krO]

Of course, it's 1.08, but it is understood, therefore, comment is just to say I am wrong is not the 1.8 ..... useless

Ok, next time i will ask you when was cs1.7 and cs1.8 released :D cuz u neither mentioned that it was CSP...

I still have cs1.6 and csp1.08 so i don't know where did u get the 1.8 :D

[Mazzer]

no