css/1.6 nuke = csp_greatnuke

[tmaven]

Hi guys,
first of all i have to say that you are doing great job. But i have little doubt in "the best way" of making csp. I think that you should make little mix of nuke from 1.6 and source one. Because source one is one of the best competitive maps in games. Is that goal of csp (connect two communities) to make one great cs?!

From "New map preview video!" topic

cashed
Level Designer

i really like css nuke minus these things.
1) radio room to ramp
2) basement bombsite railings
3) basements halls
4) vents are shit run through???
no fake bombsite >?

mine reply to that:
1) i dont see important difference between 1.6 and css.. css one is bit darker + css in my opinion is better for "backstab attack" / in 1.6 it is larger and "better" for fighting
2) doesnt matter too, it just adding some delay to land on plant - it balanced planter disadvantage due to faster vents
3) control room, barrelroom and backway are great for 1vs* for terro (read: great clutch actions for spectators), ct need alot of experiences (read teamplay) to destroy terro boy(s) and defuse
4) with 1.6 flashes its better.. you need less time to move your a** over it to lower plant
5) no fake bombsite - for what you need that ? (: - i saw just one team trying to plant there :D (read mix vs low team)

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So we have make little discuss here about nuke thing. (:

[deCeption]

Keep what matters, trash what doesn't.

My opinion on fake bombsite is to just remove it completely. Ask yourself this: What is it there for and how does it contribute to the game and/or map. If you can't come up with any logical reasons, that answers your dilemma.

[HarLe]

You can go from outside to halls to the "fake bombsite".

From there you can split the lower bombsite, you can go in vents to upper, etc...

I think it should stay there =]

[tmaven]

my opinion
- 1.6 vents / + css vents
- css radio>ramp / + 1.6 radio>ramp
- 1.6 fake plant / + css control room, barrelroom and backway
- css lower plant doors / + 1.6 doors
- 1.6 upper plant without windows, but with 1.6 nades physics its better without them

= goal is to make maps more interesting for spectators/gamers (the best possible strats)

[tmaven]

You can go from outside to halls to the "fake bombsite".

From there you can split the lower bombsite, you can go in vents to upper, etc...

I think it should stay there =]

source style of "this" strat is better (:

[cashed]

it slows down movement immensely and makes noise

[tmaven]

it slows down movement immensely and makes noise

you mean what? :)

[KaNaR]

I'd rather see the fake bombsite removed and the CSS style corridors added.

[Chris]

Keep what matters, trash what doesn't.

My opinion on fake bombsite is to just remove it completely. Ask yourself this: What is it there for and how does it contribute to the game and/or map. If you can't come up with any logical reasons, that answers your dilemma.

I guess I don't understand you, are you actually saying the lower bombsite should be removed?
U can fake the lower bombsite by pushing ramp, smoking lower go back ramp push through hut/door/outside, just an example. If there wasn't a lower bombsite people could just mega stack the upper site 24/7, no one would ever play nuke again :o

As I said, Im betting I missed something someone please explain :)

[Licit]

Keep what matters, trash what doesn't.

My opinion on fake bombsite is to just remove it completely. Ask yourself this: What is it there for and how does it contribute to the game and/or map. If you can't come up with any logical reasons, that answers your dilemma.

I guess I don't understand you, are you actually saying the lower bombsite should be removed?
U can fake the lower bombsite by pushing ramp, smoking lower go back ramp push through hut/door/outside, just an example. If there wasn't a lower bombsite people could just mega stack the upper site 24/7, no one would ever play nuke again :o

As I said, Im betting I missed something someone please explain :)

No he's talking about the room next to the lower bombsite.

[n23]

Everything about 1.6 nuke is better. And the fake bombsite has plenty of value, the back vents and the doors into each hall. Source back vents make it too easy to run around in circles, theres really no disadvantage to doing it where as in 1.6 if you want to flank around you better do it right or you'll pay for it.

[devonsonfire]

just keep it like the 1.6 one, and the community will work from there.

[Chris]

Keep what matters, trash what doesn't.

My opinion on fake bombsite is to just remove it completely. Ask yourself this: What is it there for and how does it contribute to the game and/or map. If you can't come up with any logical reasons, that answers your dilemma.

I guess I don't understand you, are you actually saying the lower bombsite should be removed?
U can fake the lower bombsite by pushing ramp, smoking lower go back ramp push through hut/door/outside, just an example. If there wasn't a lower bombsite people could just mega stack the upper site 24/7, no one would ever play nuke again :o

As I said, Im betting I missed something someone please explain :)

No he's talking about the room next to the lower bombsite.

Just played 1.6 and realised what it was, mybad :(

[Fokz]

For me features like:

-1.6 doors to upper. Maybe add the +use option like in CSS to open it from a small distance instead of running into them like an idiot (and showing your AK on the other side of the door to let everyone know you are about to open them) but letting them stay open/close and nade-open them is great.

-1.6 lowers doors. It is really not so important but I just think that 1.6 doors are better because are less bugged and give more possibilities. It's also funny when in 2on2 or 3on2 with lower plant on pistol rounds T's stay near door and CT's just wait as soon as they start to open them the fun begins :D CSS doors sometimes are bugged but this is rather because of this zBlock doorfix not beeing 100% perfect.

-CSS skylights - a lot of possibilites to throw smokes/flashes even maybe nades if correctly designed. They don't have to be like CSS skylights it is just the ability to break the "roof windows" and throw something using them. It's a trade of, you can throw better flashbangs to flash rafters but you need to use 1 or 2 guys at roof which makes your upper entrance a bit weaker in numbers.

-Walls 1.6/CSS hybrid - really 1.6 nuke is epic bullshit. I agree with having some spamming spots, thin walls to wallbang etc but honestly there are hardly any places where you cannot shot tru. This is ridiculous. Even nades do damage tru almost every possible wall. CSS is again too solid. You can do some spam shots and even there are bugs that let you do some crazy shots but still these are rather bugs not intended spam spots. If you want to include the wallbanging feature it should be balanced more than in 1.6

-CSS Lower halls. No question about that. They make the play more dynamic. They also need a lot of coordination from CT's to retake the site. And controling lower back halls is most important here. In 1.6 it is like you go to those 'T' sided halls stack there and it is so easy to defend the lower site.

-CSS vents - much faster to move. More possibilites for strats (drop 1/2 guys try to flank ramp/outside fast etc. plant lower). Also it works both ways. It makes rotation faster etc.

-1.6 Ramp Room / Radio - Rafter at ramp is better. It's harder to get there but this is not so fucking ridiculous and useless like this small lamp in source. Also it lets you to spot T's going ramp faster and vice versa it lets you to throw nades at ramp faster. Makes the game again more dynamic (1.6 ramp gives more possibilites for a dynamic gameplay than the source one, but CSS vents are more interesting if it comes to dynamic play than 1.6)

-1.6/CSS Hybrid Heaven and ladder room - here I think 1.6 ladder room is so empty and too open at ramp. I would prefer having ladder room more separetared from ramp as it is in source. Before 1.6 start to whine I will explain why this is way better. You don't take under ladder with a rush because this is nonsense so you don't need to have a good angles to throw nades there like you need while going from radio to ramp. Here I would prefer this more "opens doors" approach like in source because as soon as you jump to the left side of the wall you can pretty walk up almost to the doors without beeing noticed from under the ladder or from outside CT base boxes. Also in CSS you have this shelf (?) that you can be boosted onto which is also something interesing. but those small benches or whatever in CSS are fucking stupid because all they do is block your movement. The locker room (window room ? whatever) should be clean as it is in 1.6 without those garbage like in CSS. CSS heaven gives you more space this is good but there is also possibility for t's to double smoke it while doing fast upper which is another interesting tactical thing 1.6 is missing.

-1.6 Outside - there is really almost no difference. Only the rock walls are something source is lacking. Really if there will be yellow boiler or red rock makes no difference for me. If you can boost 3 guys up the catwalk from mini roof then it can be like in 1.6. In CSS you cannot boost 3 guys therfore there is this white thing coming out of the wall. And big garage is almost the same really. The rocks are interesting if you can boost someone there. I would mind if this was included in csp version just another spot you need to consider really.

And finally

-1.6 / CSS hybrid of upper - 1.6 upper is too empty but you should put strange objects which are clipping your bullets when they shouldnt like in source ;d so my guess is to put a crate or somethig in the corner and let jump of the rafters onto it without loosing much health. Or like fast movement from heaven to this umm middle rafter and from it on this crate or something. You can do a similar movement in 1.6 but still you loose like 6HP in Source you can jump like crazy so it is a bit too easy there.

[perfypoo]

I just have one comment, and it relates to the vents. I feel the vents should be kept 1.6 style making it so you are crouched when inside them. I don't like the fact that you can run in the vents in source. Vents are usually smaller places where someone would need to crouch. I know realism isn't a goal, but just thought I'd put in my two cents :D.

[y33]

maybe there should be 1.6 nuke and this greatnuke because over the years of playing both games i began to like the source back halls, but really disliked running through vents. So I'm just suggesting/agreeing to create both nuke maps for the game.

[NumB]

Is that goal of csp (connect two communities) to make one great cs?!

I must agree with that cause they already fail making the game as close to GoldSource gameplay by making air strafing as it is in CSS.

I personally would like to change "fake-bombplant" in lower to CSS like (even though I really hate CSS), but it can give terrorists too big advantage when they plant the bomb there. But it is possible to balance it by copying all CSS lower part and only leaving 1.6 doors.

Also I must say that "metal-part" room (between ladder room and radio room [passage from higher to lower]) should be more detailed. Maybe you guys should add a some details there from CSS, leaving ability to boost from box to that metal thingy.