Beta Testing Diary [August 25]

[doublethink]

Lots of stuff to talk about this month, so lets get to it. 8-)

Since apparently there was some really upset people this month, I made this extra long.

With real life issues, vacation time for some of the guys and slowness in general I started helping out with some coding here at CSP. We had a lot of bug fixes, and some features I added too.

NOTE: the following rant is my personal opinion.

One of the major problems with CS:S is its totally impossible to see where your bullets are going. Sure it might be more "realistic" to have per surface particle effects and fancy dust puff colors, but if you are shooting at a wall thats brown, far away, and this tiny weak brown puff comes out of the wall and your trying to trace a spray using peripheral vision in the heat of the moment, this is usually the point where the 1.6 player says "I hate this game".

/end rant.

Over the past month or so I was toying with a new system of wall impact particle effects for CSP. What I decided was not everyone may want it, so I added 4 console commands to control it, and we will have it in the Advanced Options menu to make it easier for people.



cl_classic_impact_effect 0/1
cl_classic_impact_colors 1/2/3
cl_classic_impact_hybrid_threshold 0.4
cl_classic_impact_sparks 0/1


The first one cl_classic_impact_effect is the main command, with this set to 1 it turns on the classic style effect. By default what this does is force every surface no matter what it is, to use the same effect. It also forces the little flecks to be PURE black (rgb 0 0 0). If the player leaves this to 0 they get the full default Source Engine wall particle effect, and none of the other commands apply. So essentially this controls all the rest.

The second, cl_classic_impact_colors as its name implies controls the color of the puff that comes from the wall. Default is 1 = White. 2 is Black. And 3 is something I call "Hybrid". What Hybrid does, is detects the color and brightness of what you've shot at, and determines the color of the puff on the fly. So for example, Train outer, you shoot the white wall on the T side under heaven, the puff is black. If you turn and spray under a train-car, the puffs are white. This is experimental, and probably won't be for everyone, but I thought it was kind of a cool idea to never be in a spot where you couldn't see the wall puff.

cl_classic_impact_hybrid_threshold controls the "point" at which the game decides what is light and dark, in case someone wanted to adjust it. Valid Range: 0.1 -> 1.5

And finally, what cs wall impact effect would be complete without a bunch of sparks :D As the name implies cl_classic_impact_sparks set to 1 turns on these experimental sparks. By default I am going to leave them turned off because I'm worried people with slower video cards might experience problems. I haven't had any tester come to me with an issue yet, but I don't have a slower rig to do proper testing. The effect does take a few FPS but the end result is nice :)

So anyway, enough with the talking, let me show some pictures of what this looks like.

Classic White:

http://barnabyj.com/doublethink/dev_diary/impact_white01.jpg

http://barnabyj.com/doublethink/dev_diary/impact_white02.jpg

http://barnabyj.com/doublethink/dev_diary/impact_white03.jpg

Classic Black:

http://barnabyj.com/doublethink/dev_diary/impact_black01.jpg

http://barnabyj.com/doublethink/dev_diary/impact_black02.jpg

http://barnabyj.com/doublethink/dev_diary/impact_black03.jpg

And to try to give an idea of how the Hybrid works, this is default Source for this wall, I shit you not:

http://barnabyj.com/doublethink/dev_diary/impact_hybrid01.jpg

And heres the same spot with hybrid on:

http://barnabyj.com/doublethink/dev_diary/impact_hybrid02.jpg

So yea, that's in 1.04. Might not be for everyone but I'm sure as hell going to use it. :mrgreen:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Next up is an image thats a little old, but I never showed you guys this before because I didn't get a chance to fix it. Now that I have fixed most of these keep in mind these were old values, quite a few of them were still at CS:S settings.

j0lt and I spent about 4+ hours on his dev maps collecting this info, and he made this image:

http://imgkk.com/images/v9bq309n.png

Whats interesting about it is how some things were close or exact, and others were very wrong.

The most important one there is footsteps. Source default is almost 300 units shorter then cs1.6 and that was a MAJOR problem. I've been fighting with this, on and off, since JUNE. It was never quite "correct" for one reason or another.

Since I'm doing some coding now, I had a chance to look at how the sound files are actually played to the client, and with the help of redstar find the closest setting we could to 1.6 in source. The unit values are within 15 of each other, and the volume is close. The 2 engines differ in the way they present sounds so we had to do a great deal of testing by actually recording both games into audio editing programs and comparing the two. Audio is such an important part of CS and we didn't want to cut any corners with it.

The last issue with the sounds was something amogan was working on for us. In cs1.x the bomb has a very exact cycle of beeps in terms of both speed and radius. This is what the old values were:


Sound CS 1.6 CSP 1.04
-------------------------------------------
Bomb Beeping Cycle 1 624 960
Bomb Beeping Cycle 2 960 n/a
Bomb Beeping Cycle 3 1184 n/a
Bomb Beeping Cycle 4 1760 n/a
Bomb Beeping Cycle 5 infinite n/a

Defuse Sound 1216 960

Obviously that's not gonna work, and Ben did a great job making the bomb do exactly what it does in 1.6. This is 100% in and working and its an extremely nice touch to "know" if you have time to clutch a round depending on where you hear those beeps, if you were distracted during the "bomb has been planted" message.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lets see, another thing about Source that I'm not crazy about is Weapon Viewmodel Interpolation. If you've ever played CS:S, TF2 or L4D you'll know what I'm talking about. Valve loves this trick. What they do is lag the weapon in front of you when you turn by 100 milliseconds. It gives the illusion of depth and a psuedo 3d feeling to the weapon. And I hate it. IMHO it doesn't feel right to me in CS. So here we go again with the console command:

cl_classic_viewmodel_interp 1 turns this off. If anyone likes it they can set this to 0 and it comes back. But you probably won't ;)

Its also in advanced options as a checkbox.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A few dev logs back I mentioned we matched the fall distance damage to match that of 1.6, which we did. However one thing I never noticed was cs1.6 still "punches" your view even if you don't take damage. It happens so fast I just overlooked it. Yuri one of the new testers (but not new to these forums) pointed out that CSP is missing this effect.

So I went digging in the code and found this value: PLAYER_FALL_PUNCH_THRESHOLD which was set to the same value it would take to hurt the player. That makes sense, but then cs1.6 often doesn't make sense so I hard coded this value to 250 so even 64 unit falls "punch" the view, and play a footstep sound. Both of which are important additions to gameplay and greatly increase the feel of movement.

Another thing he pointed out was the lack of sparks at the point of the flashbang pop. I've added a smoke puff and 2 sets of sparks, slightly offset to mimic the 1.6 behavior as best I could. It looks pretty cool and you'll only see it if you get partially flashed or if your standing on the other side of a tiny box, for example.

Since its late, and I'm tired, I took pics and for lack of a better way I'm just gonna link em all haha I can't mess with Fraps right now.

http://barnabyj.com/doublethink/dev_diary/flash01.jpg

http://barnabyj.com/doublethink/dev_diary/flash02.jpg

http://barnabyj.com/doublethink/dev_diary/flash03.jpg

http://barnabyj.com/doublethink/dev_diary/flash04.jpg

http://barnabyj.com/doublethink/dev_diary/flash05.jpg

http://barnabyj.com/doublethink/dev_diary/flash06.jpg

http://barnabyj.com/doublethink/dev_diary/flash07.jpg

http://barnabyj.com/doublethink/dev_diary/flash08.jpg

http://barnabyj.com/doublethink/dev_diary/flash09.jpg

http://barnabyj.com/doublethink/dev_diary/flash10.jpg

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In closing I just wanted to say we really appreciate you guys who are forum regulars, we're trying to make the wait worth it.

-Mike

1st looks good :D

[Mith]

That's some awesome work right there!

The bullet puffs look AMAZING, I can't believe you fixed that!! I always thought I'd have to get used to the ridiculous-almost-invisible CSS puffs. Seriously, I love you just for doing that, that's pure win.

Also sound ranges are just great, that's gonna enhance the 1.6 feel by ALOT in CSP. While playing CSS I've always had the feel that I was playing in a freaking studio... the sounds just weren't there. While in 1.6 I could trace someone coming from really far behind a wall and hopefully spam them, in Source I wouldn't be able to hear them until they were already shooting at me, that pissed me off so bad XD.

If all of the sounds have fixed ranges (no need to be an exact match, but around ~100 units would be great), then I'd say 1.04 is not only going to be playable, but really close to a perfect release :).

PS: Only thing that really worries me now is the movement. Hoping to see some future gameplay videos, with footage of people not just running through the map and shooting, but also jumping/bhoping/boosting/strafing and all of the other regular movements everyone performs during matches, that were fucked up in CSS.

[krash]

not to be too anal but what about them dimensions or ratio of maps and models compared to 1.6? Are we stuck with source baboon models?

[Yatta]

Looks sexy.






Don't take off your QQ replent suits quite yet, everybody. It won't take long before it's back.

[haden]

nice nice
looks great

cl_classic_impact_sparks .... I LOVE YOU!èèè!!!!!!!!!!

[Twelve-60]

Great stuff there doublethink :D

- Twelve-60

[j0lt]

Woah shit those wall impacts are fucking spot on!

Nice job man.

[kladze]

Holy shit, that looks good! i really love the flashbang sparks. And ofc all the otherthings. As you pointed out the bullet puffs are also extremly important.

This is really good, keep up the work!

why is there no hud? ... hahaha

[yuri]

A lot of screens => happy ppl. /we hope :) /

[ZeroKiller]

I love you.

[JoeyBruz]

I love you.
this

[alba]

good work mikey! ;)


why is there no hud? ... hahaha
Because I'm nittpicky and I'm still fixing/redoing some of the icons I believe are not perfect enough, it'll be in the next one and the video should be before that. Patience patience, the wait is worth it.

[SecreT]

Well done. Thanks for the hard work, especially on the smokepuffs!

[skykov]

Damn nice guys keep the good work 8-)

[[EA]]

Doublethink, you just made a lot of people less angry. :lol: Thanks for the update and good luck with 1.04.

[whimpy]

Nice stuff.

Will the weapons models will be like 1.6 ? :D

[zenarch]

does the amount of 'punch' from different drop heights vary like it does in 1.6?

[smartin]

Awesome work mikey! <3
Regarding the classic weapons thingy, isn't there already a command to remove the sway called cl_wpn_sway_interp 0?

[PutridBeing]

Awesome work mikey! <3
Regarding the classic weapons thingy, isn't there already a command to remove the sway called cl_wpn_sway_interp 0?
Yes! But like it matters because it's off by default so I can forget all about it now.

[cryeR]

well done.
but what about the widescreen - field of view advantage ?

[motomike]

well done.
but what about the widescreen - field of view advantage ?
its hardly an advantage rly, and it would be probably be hard to fix, So i doubt thats coming for next beta, but in the final release.

[unizo]

Nice to see progress. People (including myself) often forget how different Source is from 1.6, I never really noticed the model lag in Source before, but now I really notice it and it's horrid. :(

Keep up the good work, can't wait for a video.

[doublethink]

Awesome work mikey! <3
Regarding the classic weapons thingy, isn't there already a command to remove the sway called cl_wpn_sway_interp 0?

Yes but you could also insert really large values into that command, and it was just stupid.

I locked it at what CS:S is set to, and made it boolean type CVAR, on/off.

[Brainkiller]

well done.
but what about the widescreen - field of view advantage ?
There is no fov advantage when using widescreen.


Edit


First time I heard that It sounded stupid too (since I was convinced there was an advantage and it just seems logical that there would be) but then I tested in-game and there is no advantage.

[turtle]

thanks

[Devil]

nice! i love these beta testing diaries! :D
thanks for the update!

[contra]

Lets see, another thing about Source that I'm not crazy about is Weapon Viewmodel Interpolation. If you've ever played CS:S, TF2 or L4D you'll know what I'm talking about. Valve loves this trick. What they do is lag the weapon in front of you when you turn by 100 milliseconds. It gives the illusion of depth and a psuedo 3d feeling to the weapon. And I hate it. IMHO it doesn't feel right to me in CS. So here we go again with the console command:

cl_classic_viewmodel_interp 1 turns this off. If anyone likes it they can set this to 0 and it comes back. But you probably won't ;)

Its also in advanced options as a checkbox.


I love that you're doing stuff like this. Really paying attention to the small details that might seem trivial but actually do play a big part in the 1.6 "feel". Keep up the good work!

[doublethink]

well done.
but what about the widescreen - field of view advantage ?
There is no fov advantage when using widescreen.

Edit

First time I heard that It sounded stupid too (since I was convinced there was an advantage and it just seems logical that there would be) but then I tested in-game and there is no advantage.

even if there were, we can correct it. we have full control over what happens to the players viewport if needed.

[Lordearon]

nice post! hope we get to see the hud soon too :)

[wtfpwnage]

Nice to see progress. People (including myself) often forget how different Source is from 1.6, I never really noticed the model lag in Source before, but now I really notice it and it's horrid. :(

Keep up the good work, can't wait for a video.
what?

[unizo]

what?

I wasn't talking about the obviously noticeable things, I was talking about the little things.

[SmivlyDee]

i dont know if i read it right, but it sounds like your making it so u can hear the bomb beep from anywhere.
Wont it make it hard to know where the bomb is planted if u were not at either bomb site when it was planted.
In 1.6 you could go just out the bomb site and hear the bomb beep and know it was at that site.

[madmax]

i dont know if i read it right, but it sounds like your making it so u can hear the bomb beep from anywhere.
Wont it make it hard to know where the bomb is planted if u were not at either bomb site when it was planted.
In 1.6 you could go just out the bomb site and hear the bomb beep and know it was at that site.
no that not what they did.
they made it even more like 1.6 where you could here if it was on that site if you where there.
also they made so you can really hear how much time is left :shock:

And it gets louder every faster peeping step plus at the end (don't know the last and fastest part) you can hear the peeping everywhere (you may noticed this in cs1.6 when ur t base on d2 to save the equipment as ct.

[Dave]

i honestly cant believe how good this is starting to look. im genuinely excited!

[TIRANlik]

very nice and this is all very long ;)

a question about the flash-sparks... did the flashes explode midair? or on the floor?

[NortproN]

Nice stuff.

Will the weapons models will be like 1.6 ? :D

thei'll have 1.6 angles and size whatnot with a source touch, but it's possible to get the 1.6 weapons to csp1.04 i think

[kakarot]

keep up the good work :D

[sevoii]

looks good

[ImportedNoob]

Niceeeeeeeeee

[sevoii]

WOW. Haven't checked back here for a couple of months. Looks really good:!:

[phreaK]

looks really good. but those origins on the guns are really really ugly. i dont see why you didnt just leave those alone. other than that its looking good. cant wait for its release.

[doublethink]

looks really good. but those origins on the guns are really really ugly. i dont see why you didnt just leave those alone. other than that its looking good. cant wait for its release.

lol source player eh?

We have a console command for classic (aka MANLY 1.6 style) origins.

cl_classicorigins 0/1

In other words you can put them back to CS:S defaults if you want.

The other funny thing some testers did was use the 1.6 viewmodels with CS:S origins, now THATS weird. ;)

And yes it possible to use the 1.6 models but we don't and cannot support this activity, sorry. Theres no way to verify that you own 1.6, so technically that would distributing assets from a game which costs money, without the people responsible getting paid.

And we don't feel like explaining to high powered lawyers why we distributed such content to players. So you CAN do it, and if you own 1.6 its perfectly legal to do so, and theres nothing we can do to stop you. But we cannot distribute the models or official support the activity. Get me? Technically anyone who distributes the 1.6 models ported to Source is actually breaking the law too, but the odds of them having retribution sought against them are hilariously slim. Valve is very supportive of player custimization because they know it increasing the life and sales of their games, but we are not going to be stupid and directly bark at a bigger dog.

Plus, honestly, I really like the source models with the old origins in CSP, I really think they look good.

[Mith]

Did the coders do any work at all on weapon recoil/spraying? Is there any difference between shooting in 1.03 and 1.04? Because that's the mod's greatest drawback now IMO (well, maybe only below the huge source player models), and if it's fixed (or at least close to 1.6), I don't see anything that could make this new release bad in any way.

[NortproN]

one thing i've been wondering about, how close to 1.6 is the squeaky door ? i don't really care if you can make it close randomly if you throw an item if it touches the door twice or gets stuck there, but it should rotate the same way like in 1.6 if you walk into it in in different ways and it should close when you walk on top of it. I don't know how this is in source but meh. The sound should prodably be a little more 1.6-esque than it is in 1.03, i think it's a more distinctive sound in 1.6, you will easily notice the sound no matter what the situation really. (oh, and it should be blockable by standing close to it, and when opening it by walking into it as a t and throwing a flash as it's halway open, it should flash most of the room, stuff like this)

[phreaK]

looks really good. but those origins on the guns are really really ugly. i dont see why you didnt just leave those alone. other than that its looking good. cant wait for its release.

lol source player eh?

We have a console command for classic (aka MANLY 1.6 style) origins.

cl_classicorigins 0/1

In other words you can put them back to CS:S defaults if you want.

The other funny thing some testers did was use the 1.6 viewmodels with CS:S origins, now THATS weird. ;)

And yes it possible to use the 1.6 models but we don't and cannot support this activity, sorry. Theres no way to verify that you own 1.6, so technically that would distributing assets from a game which costs money, without the people responsible getting paid.

And we don't feel like explaining to high powered lawyers why we distributed such content to players. So you CAN do it, and if you own 1.6 its perfectly legal to do so, and theres nothing we can do to stop you. But we cannot distribute the models or official support the activity. Get me? Technically anyone who distributes the 1.6 models ported to Source is actually breaking the law too, but the odds of them having retribution sought against them are hilariously slim. Valve is very supportive of player custimization because they know it increasing the life and sales of their games, but we are not going to be stupid and directly bark at a bigger dog.

Plus, honestly, I really like the source models with the old origins in CSP, I really think they look good.

yea im a source player. im a big fan of 1.6 aswell to throw it out there and i dont flame source or 1.6 cause i enjoy them both. but in 1.6 the models look elongated and proportionate, not stretched out, i think that the models could use a bit of work to make them proportionate to the origins they are at like they are in 1.6. its not exactly pleasing to my eye, but im just one person. i personally, would like to have it all the same for everyone where we can all play at one gun origin and have everyone be happy.

[StaNky]

Awesome man! :D

[adamkry]

Hi guys. I started playing CS in 1999 and played it straight through competitively until 2006 or 2007. I wasn't playing at the time but one of the last things I remember is the announcement on Gotfrag about the start of this project. I know its been slow going but I just want to say I think you are doing some absolutely awesome work. Its a great idea, a tough idea, but I'm so happy you've stuck with it. I don't really play video games anymore but I'm more excited about trying your game than I was for HL2 to come out.

Good Luck, Have Fun. And thank you so much.

Adam

[puddin1]

I LOVE YOU ALL!!

[haGisson]

nice work double!!

[sevoii]

looks really good. but those origins on the guns are really really ugly. i dont see why you didnt just leave those alone. other than that its looking good. cant wait for its release.

What's wrong with you! The source origins are f*****g CRAP!

Sevoii shut up... There are ppl they likes women with big tits and there are some they like women with small ...

[dunadan]

I like girl with medium tits :P

[alba]

See, that is why we give people a choice so we can keep the whining to a minimum :lol:

Me too dunadan, me too

[MaveN]

Over the past month or so I was toying with a new system of wall impact particle effects for CSP. What I decided was not everyone may want it, so I added 4 console commands to control it, and we will have it in the Advanced Options menu to make it easier for people.



cl_classic_impact_effect 0/1
cl_classic_impact_colors 1/2/3
cl_classic_impact_hybrid_threshold 0.4
cl_classic_impact_sparks 0/1



Counter-Strike 1.6 is such a simple game and we love it. One thing i dont like at SOURCE are the CVARS. You got thousand of them. On 1.6 it's manageable.
4 new console commands. well.. not a bad work but you want it to bring it near 1.6 so dont add new features the community dont need :S
maybe you've added the CVARS to see what the community likes the most? (<-maybe thats it.. you said you were toying around)
That's my opinion.
// i only want to help :)


@the new origins: http://dryst.com/schiller/origins.gif (maybe it dont match perfectly cause on the CSP screen the shooting animation is played?)

MfG

[Amiet]

@the new origins: http://dryst.com/schiller/origins.gif (maybe it dont match perfectly cause on the CSP screen the shooting animation is played?)

Hmm.. Are all maps that dark? 1.6 Inferno looked kinda better IMO, because it didnt look as dark and depressing =p

[smartin]

word

[doublethink]

Counter-Strike 1.6 is such a simple game and we love it. One thing i dont like at SOURCE are the CVARS. You got thousand of them. On 1.6 it's manageable.
4 new console commands. well.. not a bad work but you want it to bring it near 1.6 so dont add new features the community dont need :S
maybe you've added the CVARS to see what the community likes the most? (<-maybe thats it.. you said you were toying around)
That's my opinion.
// i only want to help :)


You don't want choice? I'm sorry but that makes no sense. We are trying to respect people who like Source, and so I give choices to revert back to the default Source behavior if they want it.

There are more commands in the Source Engine SDK because its a more powerful engine. Why is this a problem? Setup the advanced options once, or make an autoexec.cfg and never think about it again. Its no different then 1.6 in terms of that.

Also, 1.6 is not "simple" at all, imho.



@the new origins: http://dryst.com/schiller/origins.gif (maybe it dont match perfectly cause on the CSP screen the shooting animation is played?)


Don't try to compare weapons in mid firing >_<

You know how long we spent overlying screenshots in photoshop and redoing the angles 4 MILLION times to get it correct?

They are close as humanly possible in the IDLE position, which is not the position in any of those screenshots.

Sorry, not trying to attack ya just pointing that out! :D

-------------------------


Hmm.. Are all maps that dark? 1.6 Inferno looked kinda better IMO, because it didnt look as dark and depressing =p

My gamma is low, it can be much brighter if you wish.

[Amiet]

Well, on 1.6 there is more the bright trea color like on the boxes throughout the map though, on the csp its kinda more dark stone. I havent seen much tho so i might be wrong :P

[MaveN]

You know how long we spent overlying screenshots in photoshop and redoing the angles 4 MILLION times to get it correct?

i don't^.^



Sorry, not trying to attack ya just pointing that out! :D

npnp love ya :mrgreen:



You don't want choice? I'm sorry but that makes no sense. We are trying to respect people who like Source, and so I give choices to revert back to the default Source behavior if they want it.


I can understand you but there are too many possibilities for such a trivial matter.
playing counter-strike makes fun! if i'm playing and put my fucking bullets in the enemys head i dont care how it looks on the wall :lol:

So then don't care and play it without configure it ;) so what you play the game with default commands.

[Lordearon]

MaveN, read the initial MO. They wanted to add in the 1.6 feel, but keep the vars open for the players/leagues. There will be a major league, or several with accepted standards.. configs for you to download.

You won't have to choose, don't worry.

I just wish the settings could be blocked from change for online tournament purposes...

I know I might sound silly as these client settings might not seem to give any advantage, but... but ... we never know when they'll start complaining about that... if there would be a preset system for tournament play.. that'd be a nice to have... something to keep in mind how it would be possible to achieve, but ppl want to play this baby early! So toss it out if it takes too long :p

Anyway, love the new way you are keeping us informed, love it that most haters have stopped bothering to show up, it's all good!

[Lordearon]

MO = Mission Objective :o :o - I learned it from a movie yesterday! YAY \o/

anyways, eager to see HUD & Radar! :)

[xtobix]

Simply epic what you are doing to Counter-Strike.. I specially love the cs1.6-like effects (flashbang and bullet impacts -> very nice work there)
fixing the sound also is very important.. and so are the player models.. hope they will feel like cs1.6.. animations and style should be near to identical.
can't wait to play this.

good luck to you. this game will fu**** pwn!

[[EA]]

anyways, eager to see HUD & Radar! :)

Could this be the topic for the next Beta Testing Diary? :twisted:

[Rabieskorv]

It seems like it can be something of this :D

Nice work CSP crew! ;)

[Muddhead]

Yup, finally the thing I was looking for. Any audio enhancements will also help greatly.
Just try to keep making the diary entries on time.

[perfypoo]

everything is looking awesome so far, big improvements since i last bothered to look at these forums.
i would love to see more screenshots :). also, have all of the maps been completely finished or are tweaks still being made?

[smartin]

basics of all maps are done, and ted is now making an effort in enhancing every map, one at a time.

[FODDER]

Even if this game becomes complete there is going to need to be a massive and perfectly ran advertising campaign(from both a mainstream perspective and for the E-sports community that already plays CS and its terrible counterpart, CS:S). Unless you were to somehow port this over to an internet browser or somehow get it standalone from CS:S I really don't see it becoming too popular. All it would really do is cause a greater division in the CS and CS:S community and its focus if it only half-worked(half-worked meaning turned out perfect but wasn't advertised and brought out perfectly as well, and thats if the game turns out perfect upon completion).

I personally think the best possible solution to the social barriers(having to know about Steam, then purchase CS:S, then finally downloaded CSPM is too great of a pain for most mainstream gamers) would be to have Valve drop both CS and CS:S upon CSPM's completion off of Steam and fully back CSPM as its own game(not just a mod) and on top of that ESEA would have to drop CS and CS:S as well and pick up CSPM. And those a lot of huge conditions that are not too likely...

And also it wouldn't hurt to have CSPM be released with all the custom(from CS and CS:S but obviously used in competitive play) maps like de_russka, de_tuscan, and so on. Just throwing that out there. :P

[smartin]

Valve will never drop CS and CS:S for CSP.

[saywut]

I personally think the best possible solution to the social barriers(having to know about Steam, then purchase CS:S, then finally downloaded CSPM is too great of a pain for most mainstream gamers) would be to have Valve drop both CS and CS:S upon CSPM's completion off of Steam and fully back CSPM as its own game(not just a mod) and on top of that ESEA would have to drop CS and CS:S as well and pick up CSPM. And those a lot of huge conditions that are not too likely...


You drop dead moron, huurrr hurrrr steam will sure make alot of money if they do that won't they!
edit: the odds of it ever happening is 1/99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999

[Valve]

Yes, we will never drop CSS and 1.6 for CSP.

[motomike]

Even if this game becomes complete there is going to need to be a massive and perfectly ran advertising campaign(from both a mainstream perspective and for the E-sports community that already plays CS and its terrible counterpart, CS:S). Unless you were to somehow port this over to an internet browser or somehow get it standalone from CS:S I really don't see it becoming too popular. All it would really do is cause a greater division in the CS and CS:S community and its focus if it only half-worked(half-worked meaning turned out perfect but wasn't advertised and brought out perfectly as well, and thats if the game turns out perfect upon completion).

I personally think the best possible solution to the social barriers(having to know about Steam, then purchase CS:S, then finally downloaded CSPM is too great of a pain for most mainstream gamers) would be to have Valve drop both CS and CS:S upon CSPM's completion off of Steam and fully back CSPM as its own game(not just a mod) and on top of that ESEA would have to drop CS and CS:S as well and pick up CSPM. And those a lot of huge conditions that are not too likely...

And also it wouldn't hurt to have CSPM be released with all the custom(from CS and CS:S but obviously used in competitive play) maps like de_russka, de_tuscan, and so on. Just throwing that out there. :P
no cal i cheaters aloud to talk in this thread

[Lordearon]

Even if this game becomes complete there is going to need to be a massive and perfectly ran advertising campaign(from both a mainstream perspective and for the E-sports community that already plays CS and its terrible counterpart, CS:S). Unless you were to somehow port this over to an internet browser or somehow get it standalone from CS:S I really don't see it becoming too popular.
...
And also it wouldn't hurt to have CSPM be released with all the custom(from CS and CS:S but obviously used in competitive play) maps like de_russka, de_tuscan, and so on. Just throwing that out there. :P

I agree with the first part, but everything else is a bit silly.

As can be seen with Quake, it's a hassle to get into all the mods & competition versions. It does split the community: you have pub players & competitive players. There's a split between the leagues & the pubs (with even some leagues using different promods there's also a split in community between leagues).

Wide adoption of cspm will be needed, the initial release (v.1) probably showed there was wide interest, a lot of servers came up, a lot of ppl wanted it to work, but a lot of ppl were disappointed as well (hence the change of direction from the development team, get it close to perfect first).

it's true that when this mod reaches a quality level, more time will need to be spent in the spreading. But for now let's keep it to the hard core that enjoy making this mod better & talk about it with their friends (im-to-im spread). For Valve this is probably a great chance to sell more copies of source as certain 1.6 players might make the switch for it.

btw the custom maps came from the leagues & in my opinion also split pub/fun players from pro playrs. Definitely in Belgium, when you had a league match coming up on 1 of those maps it was difficult to find pracc. matches. But that doesn't matter really, custom maps will be ported by the leagues, or might be bundled in a release, it's all good.

Anyway, saw on twitter they're working hard on the video... drewling keep it up

[kruzay]

closer to 1.6 = closer to perfection

[Redstar]

closer to 1.6 = closer to perfection

quoted for truth

[unizo]

closer to 1.6 = closer to perfection

quoted for truth

Semi truth*

Because surely if 1.6 was perfect, there'd be no need for CSP to even exist?

[stefoo]

very excited for v 1.04

[paradox]

dont make us wait another year for 1.04 :cry:

[[EA]]

I'm hungry!

[smartin]

Because surely if 1.6 was perfect, there'd be no need for CSP to even exist?

gfx bro

[haGisson]

I'm hungry!

eat something! ;)

[m99tehfish]

I'm hungary

[madmax]

i think it's time to make a new dev log last one was made on August 25 now it's September 26. sorry but im really desperate to se the progress :lol:

[JoeyBruz]

i think it's time to make a new dev log last one was made on August 25 now it's September 26. sorry but im really desperate to se the progress :lol:
I was thinking exactly the same thing!

[hypno]

The next developers log may be accompanied by 1.04b itself... that'd be cool.

[NortproN]

The next developers log may be accompanied by 1.04b itself... that'd be cool.

only if it's released within the next 4 days =P
if you mean the one after this one, you might be right. although my guess is November







ah yes sweet November 2010..

Csp_nuke thread was on 20th September 2009... Don't Know if that counts As "devlog". They didn't say it does or doesnt...

[amogan]

Does.

[motomike]

Does.
=[

[amogan]

<3 from the devteam. meanwhile.

[motomike]

<3 from the devteam. meanwhile.
i feel the <3

[madmax]

<3 from the devteam. meanwhile.
hope that next devlog isent just 4photos of nuke and a <3, i can really feel the <3 :lol: :lol:

[cashed]

doublethink should still be coming out with another monthly diary

[motomike]

doublethink should still be coming out with another monthly diary
now i really feel the <3 :D

[[EA]]

doublethink should still be coming out with another monthly diary
now i really feel the <3 :D

+1

[hbi]

g0g0 end of month gief log nowz plox

[HarLe]

That is some really amazing work, keep it up.

[haGisson]

did somebody forget to wake up doublethink when september ends?

[haGisson]

That is some really amazing work, keep it up.

hey you're the guy with the great post in the gotfrag forums right?

[motomike]

That is some really amazing work, keep it up.

hey you're the guy with the great post in the gotfrag forums right?
that he iz

[donlan]

Harle- the man, the legend.

[mrlava]

looks amazing!
I hope you bring out new beta testing diary soon ;)
Or better yet...the new beta :D

[haGisson]

i hope they don't revert back to their old ways (1 week = 1 year)

[PutridBeing]

i hope they don't revert back to their old ways (1 week = 1 year)
Definitely not doing that. They've just been very busy and if what Alex said about 3 weeks from now being true I would personally understand why there wasn't a dev log.

[wtfpwnage]

Video will be here next week!

[madmax]

Video will be here next week!
and what have you based that on :?: :?:

[JoeyBruz]

Video will be here next week!
I hope so, They missed last months blog :(

[doublethink]

Would you stop freaking out ppl, new site next week. Ill post the log with the site.

[j0lt]

Great news!

[motomike]

Would you stop freaking out ppl, new site next week. Ill post the log with the site.
<3

[highborn]

we all greatly appreciate the time and effort you have put into this :D i hope it will take off ^^

and people will enjoy it


thanks again "ILOVEU"

[VeXeV]

good job man. its all about the sparks! and the flashbang is crazy also. keep it up.

[Masternoob]

Would you stop freaking out ppl, new site next week. Ill post the log with the site.

site is here...where is the log? ;)

[smartin]

chill bro, i think theres a certain awesome thing he wants to add to the log.

[alba]

can't wait for him to post the new devlog, lots of good things happening right now so :P

[Step]

can't wait for him to post the new devlog, lots of good things happening right now so :P

When is the the new devlog being released?

Are we talking today or in the coming days or weeks?

[alba]

dunno... when he has a bit of time I guess, he has quite a bit of stuff on his plate already :) You all are too impatient :D

[Step]

dunno... when he has a bit of time I guess, he has quite a bit of stuff on his plate already :) You all are too impatient :D

I appreciate all the hard work everyone including yourself is doing for this mod and I understand everyone has other things to attend to.

I'm hardly impatient just wondering when to expect it is all ;)

[haGisson]

sounds good, but the nearer we get to the release the more impatient i get

[smartin]

seriously, you'll be glad he waited before posting it since theres this certain awesome thing that just happened.

[cirNe]

will you guys be able to add death animations from 1.6?

shooting someone in the head and watching them fly back in 1.6 makes me happy, watching them go limp does nothing for me. stuff like that makes a big difference to me so until all little things like that are handled i would never think about switching over from 1.6 and i know a lot of competitive 1.6 players are with me on that.

[yuri]

will you guys be able to add death animations from 1.6?
Yes, they will.

For the diary starving:
Look at the Doubles devlogs release dates... The logs are released approx in the last week of a month.

[GengaR]

For the diary starving:
Look at the Doubles devlogs release dates... The logs are released approx in the last week of a month.

Maybe I am wrong, but if that is the case shouldn't there be a thread with Septembers logs?

[Mith]

For the diary starving:
Look at the Doubles devlogs release dates... The logs are released approx in the last week of a month.

Maybe I am wrong, but if that is the case shouldn't there be a thread with Septembers logs?

September is dark month for the csp team, therefore it shall not get any recognition.

No really, they were probably too busy getting the site and maps and stuff up. Besides, a video previewing all 5 main maps sounds like sort of a devlog to me :P.

[haGisson]

For the diary starving:
Look at the Doubles devlogs release dates... The logs are released approx in the last week of a month.

Maybe I am wrong, but if that is the case shouldn't there be a thread with Septembers logs?

September is dark month for the csp team, therefore it shall not get any recognition.

No really, they were probably too busy getting the site and maps and stuff up. Besides, a video previewing all 5 main maps sounds like sort of a devlog to me :P.

think so too. gj cashed, alba and redstar!

[ShenN]

keep up the good work :D

[alba]

I almost forgot that doublethink's away for a week or so I was wondering where the hell he went and I forgot he told me xD